Paintball

[drg]

Originally Posted by manike

If there's no trigger to pull, and nothing being pulled... how can you have a 'trigger pull'?

You could have a "firing system activation"...

Does not the touchpad become the 'trigger'? A trigger isn't necessarily a piece of metal.

Anyway, the full-release requirement sounds arbitrary to me. That's just a function of trigger stops, which are personal preference. Seems silly that the exact same motion on marker can and can not be a trigger pull depending on the trigger stop settings (that's ceverhart's)

[Marmaduke]

Originally Posted by drg

Does not the touchpad become the 'trigger'? A trigger isn't necessarily a piece of metal.

Anyway, the full-release requirement sounds arbitrary to me. That's just a function of trigger stops, which are personal preference. Seems silly that the exact same motion on marker can and can not be a trigger pull depending on the trigger stop settings (that's ceverhart's)

I have to agree with drg on this one guys.

There are so many different ways to set up a trigger. Personally, I like mine nice a tight, with little slop and no bounce. Not a lot, but by no means a mouse click of travel. I guess I'd describe my trigger set ups as "crisp".

However, some people prefer their triggers to be loose with a lot of pre or post travel.

When I walk one of the later described triggers, my fingers almost never leave the trigger because I'm used to a shorter and crisper pull. This does not mean I'm unintentionally tripping the trigger.

I think what we need is Manike to take a slow motion video of someone walking the trigger with their grips open so that we can see the microswitch and how it reacts to each pull.

I tried to make a video last night but do to poor lighting and the microswitch on my Tadao'd Ego6 being on the right side (i'm right handed) it was very difficult to do so.

[Schmitti]

Those micro switches have like a .5 mm throw (or some such small *** value)... better buy a macro lense for that camera manike!

E

[pillage]

Originally Posted by Gabe

Gun makers should start making guns that use a pressure-sensitive strip or light beam instead of a trigger. That would eliminate mechanical bounce completely. Guns could be set for absolute true semi-auto.

Using an optical interuptor switch would be easy. I use them at work all the time.

[manike]

Originally Posted by Schmitti

Those micro switches have like a .5 mm throw (or some such small *** value)... better buy a macro lense for that camera manike!

E

I can fill my viewer with a paintball so I think we should be ok to catch the switch. Right now I am trying to get lenses to mount to a 'C' fitting that will actually let me view objects that are further away.

Originally Posted by drg

Does not the touchpad become the 'trigger'? A trigger isn't necessarily a piece of metal.

Quite true, but there isn't a trigger that you pull. It would be a touch trigger.

Originally Posted by Marmaduke

I think what we need is Manike to take a slow motion video of someone walking the trigger with their grips open so that we can see the microswitch and how it reacts to each pull.

I'll add that to my list. I think it's a great idea. I think I know how to do it too. Unfortunately I'm crazy busy for a while so I'm not sure when I can get to it.

[flyweightnate]

I've got a Diadem, with a lexan panel over the switch. Switch the smoke lexan for clear, it would be VERY easy to see. And I can break 13, so heck, I suppose I could be in the tests, if anyone wants to fly me to Phoenix

Or, grab some random gun, mill the frame, and get those lexan or acrylic panels.

[Marmaduke]

Originally Posted by manike

I'll add that to my list. I think it's a great idea. I think I know how to do it too. Unfortunately I'm crazy busy for a while so I'm not sure when I can get to it.

I'm just thinking, it would be nice to see a a video with both the trigger frame and microswitch in view. That way, you could see the trigger pulls and how the microswitch bounces.

You could then do it when the gun on, and have the bolt in the view as well. That way, you could see trigger input, switch bounce AND the amount of times the marker is cycling. It would be really easy to do on an Ego or Timmy where the bolt is visible.

[raehl]

I also agree with DRG that a full trigger release should not be necessary.

Here's my test process:

The trigger is pulled back slowly until the marker fires. At slow-motion video we should have a very precise point where a trigger cycle is activated. That is the 'trigger point'.

In order to be considered a trigger pull, the trigger must be pushed from in front of the trigger point to behind the trigger point, then must be allowed to return to "in front" of the trigger point under the same force that resisted the initial pull.

I also think for the purposes of semi-auto, the marker is NOT allowed to fire more than one shot between two forward-to-back passes of the trigger point. That means no electronic shot buffering, and also effectively means trigger events must be at least one gun cycle apart to count. This would also require the use of paint, as if you pull the trigger once to shoot, and then go to pull a second time and the gun prevents you from shooting because the eyes say there isn't a paintball there yet, well, tough ****, you lose that pull.



I think as a matter of safety, it would be nice if triggers had a 'compound bow' type effect, where there is maybe a quarter or half inch of full movement on the trigger, and the first half of that movement has a 'high' resistive force (maybe a strong magnet is used emag style) and then the second 50% of the movement has a much smaller trigger force, with the trigger point about 80-90% back in the movement. So you have to pull the trigger fairly hard to get past the first 50% (say, Tippmann98 hard) but then once you're past that, you have dainty electro pull force and as long as you keep your finger on the trigger, can pull back and forth in the back 50% easily and lightly in semi.

But put the gun down and the trigger returns to the 0% mark, where it's once again 'hard' to get an accidental discharge.

Hrm, time to visit the patent attorney.

- Chris

[drg]

Originally Posted by raehl

I think as a matter of safety, it would be nice if triggers had a 'compound bow' type effect, where there is maybe a quarter or half inch of full movement on the trigger, and the first half of that movement has a 'high' resistive force (maybe a strong magnet is used emag style) and then the second 50% of the movement has a much smaller trigger force, with the trigger point about 80-90% back in the movement. So you have to pull the trigger fairly hard to get past the first 50% (say, Tippmann98 hard) but then once you're past that, you have dainty electro pull force and as long as you keep your finger on the trigger, can pull back and forth in the back 50% easily and lightly in semi.

But put the gun down and the trigger returns to the 0% mark, where it's once again 'hard' to get an accidental discharge.

Hrm, time to visit the patent attorney.

- Chris

This is essentially how magnet triggers work, such as the eblade trigger, no?

[Gabe]

The whole pull and release thing seems a bit outdated as we now walk the triggers of guns. If one finger is still down on the trigger when the other comes down then you don't get a shot. A touch pad trigger would allow the gun to fire even if the other finger was still down.

As long as the gun fires once every time a finger forcefully touches the firing interface then what's the big deal?