Paintball

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by drg

Because F=MA.

1) The pump, pump rod, backblock, bolt and the human arm represent far and away the majority of the reciprocating mass (and friction) in a sniper's cycle. The hammer assembly and a light mainspring represent a small fraction of the mass and friction.

F=MA. Since a hammer asembly does add mass, there is a greater force required.

Since a mainspring (even a light one), does add resistance, greater force is required. It may not be a heck of a lot of extra force, but we are dealing with a small amount of force to begin with.

Therefore, all other things being equal, a pump stroke eliminating both the hammer assembly and a mainspring will require less force. Physics doesn't lie. Glad you brought it up.

[drg]

Originally Posted by Horizon

F=MA. Since a hammer asembly does add mass, there is a greater force required.

Since a mainspring (even a light one), does add resistance, greater force is required. It may not be a heck of a lot of extra force, but we are dealing with a small amount of force to begin with.

Therefore, all other things being equal, a pump stroke eliminating both the hammer assembly and a mainspring will require less force. Physics doesn't lie. Glad you brought it up.

Yep, the question of course is how much it matters. After all, some trigger pulls are lighter than others, some pump strokes, some pumps are lighter than others, etc. etc. I don't agree it's a small amount of force. The reciprocating assembly is very heavy compared to the hammer and spring, and the human arm or hand being part of the assembly is a big factor, all of which limits how much difference any of these things make.

Bottom line is the difference between an mQ stroke and light mech pump stroke is negligible and does not result in an increase in maximum ROF (i.e. +/- 1 bps) or any other meaningful measure because the force required isn't much less if any (a return spring invalidates it).

[oggfueler]

All things being equal means they would be equal,,, which I think they are. If you didn't run a return spring in the MQ's pump then there'd be a whole lotta double feeds due to the pump flopping around,,, then if it did have a return spring that would cancel out the above statement would it not? The springs in a mech pump also benefits the action with the return action of the spring,,, a spring return is more repeatable and makes timing pumping and shooting easier,,, I think.

[drg]

Originally Posted by oggfueler

All things being equal means they would be equal,,, which I think they are. If you didn't run a return spring in the MQ's pump then there'd be a whole lotta double feeds due to the pump flopping around,,, then if it did have a return spring that would cancel out the above statement would it not? The springs in a mech pump also benefits the action with the return action of the spring,,, a spring return is more repeatable and makes timing pumping and shooting easier,,, I think.

"Pump flop" can be a problem even with mech guns.

[oggfueler]

Yes,,, and a pump too lite with no real return action has never been very accurate for me,,, tis why I shoot better with my Phantoms return spring on,,, or maybe I'm just weird.

[Frink]

Originally Posted by drg

Yep, the question of course is how much it matters. After all, some trigger pulls are lighter than others, some pump strokes, some pumps are lighter than others, etc. etc. I don't agree it's a small amount of force. The reciprocating assembly is very heavy compared to the hammer and spring, and the human arm or hand being part of the assembly is a big factor, all of which limits how much difference any of these things make.

Bottom line is the difference between an mQ stroke and light mech pump stroke is negligible and does not result in an increase in maximum ROF (i.e. +/- 1 bps) or any other meaningful measure because the force required isn't much less if any (a return spring invalidates it).

Well I'm glad you brought up Physics, then when it didn't work out you resort to "It doesn't matter anyway".

Bottom line is, in YOUR opinion, an MQ pump stroke is just as light as a mechanical pump and doesn't increase ROF. It's just too bad that's an OPINION and you have no was to QUANTIFY it.

[drg]

Originally Posted by Frink

Well I'm glad you brought up Physics, then when it didn't work out you resort to "It doesn't matter anyway".

Bottom line is, in YOUR opinion, an MQ pump stroke is just as light as a mechanical pump and doesn't increase ROF. It's just too bad that's an OPINION and you have no was to QUANTIFY it.

What are you talking about?

The physics works out. That is the basis of the whole explanation, which I have made time and time again in this thread. The fact that it does not matter IS the point.

The forces can be quantified via measurement and calculation, which I am in the process of, casually. However I'm not in a huge rush because the facts are self-evident if you actually use the guns in question.

[Frink]

Originally Posted by drg

What are you talking about?

The physics works out. That is the basis of my whole explanation which I have made time and time again in this thread. The fact that it does not matter IS the point.

The forces can be quantified via measurement and calculation, which I am in the process of, casually. However I'm not in a huge rush because the facts are self-evident if you actually use the guns in question.

It's self evident that the hammer and spring are insignificant? I think not.

The physics might work out. You claiming they do without any proof is unbelievable. How in the hell do you claim they work out without actually working them out? That's just foolish. I would fail a 10th grade physics student for making that argument.

[drg]

Originally Posted by Frink

It's self evident that the hammer and spring are insignificant? I think not.

The physics might work out. You claiming they do without any proof is unbelievable. How in the hell do you claim they work out without actually working them out? That's just foolish. I would fail a 10th grade physics student for making that argument.

Self-evident can mean requiring no explanation or obvious. I use the term in this sense.
self-evident - Definitions from Dictionary.com

As I said, if you actually try to do it, it becomes obvious rapidly. Same thing I've said before.

[oggfueler]

Okay,,, someone here has to have shot both a MQ and a S6,,,, I have my own theories and assumptions but I'll hold my tongue since I have no experience with a MQ'd pump,,, Can someone do and actual scientific test to see if in fact the MQ aids ROF,,, which I don't believe it does.