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Old 11-07-2008, 11:28 AM   #91 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Harbinger[TG] View Post
Did you ever buy anything from Air America? My $5 rebuild kit that probably weighed a few grams was about $12-15 to ship.
Not directly... again, shipping.
I'm glad to hear a phone order can get reasonable shipping rates, though. Somehow nobody ever told me that/ I never saw anybody post that.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:03 PM   #92 (permalink)
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PPS has (or had) an option during checkout where you can waive the tracking/insurance portion of shipping on small stuff for cheaper shipping, if you assume responsibility for stuff getting lost. I've ordered quite a few envelope sized things from them and never had a problem with getting a hose barb shipped in a $9 box.

For what it's worth, posting my Squall "issues" here wasn't intended to be bashing PPS in any way; it was more of an indicator that people shouldn't necessarily expect a perfect, production quality product when ordering a hand-built one-off custom. I was and am very satisfied with the product I received and the CS I got from PPS, just had to change my expectations a little.
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Old 11-07-2008, 05:48 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Just for the Record, you might want to ask Mr. Debone just why it was he got fired. He'll likely lie to you about that as well.



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I used to be a big fan in the early 90s. Had them work on a few guns.

But the true "custom shop" ended in 1995 when they fired Dan Debone. He was the lead tech, and the wizard behind most of the one-offs, and new designs (ie Nastys, triples, Blazer, other customs). A brilliant engineer.

After 1995, there was a huge shift from a custom shop, to a production facility. They no longer produce one-offs, unless it serves a marketing value to the standard production line. In fact, no new items have come out of Palmers since Debone was pushed out, except for the Pyre. Which, while interesting, its not exactly a "new" item.

Not that I begrudge them for this. They have bills to pay, and it is the nature of the business to progress from a garage-based company, into a money-making venture, with lots of employees. If you consider then 99% of other paintguns are now made in China, it is really great that its still possible to buy a quality American made product.

But mentally, I seperate the Debone-era, from the post Debone-era. Much like Carter with the Pre-Dye, and Dye era.
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Old 11-07-2008, 05:53 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Old 11-07-2008, 06:25 PM   #95 (permalink)
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I for one am satisfied with my PPS guns (especially my Blazer) and will definitely continue to support them.If I run into any issues with the PGP I did custom work to, I'd still consider sending it to them,I'm just kinda glad I didn't this time around mostly due to cost and I didn't want to wait.
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Old 11-08-2008, 09:33 AM   #96 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GP@PPS View Post
Just for the Record, you might want to ask Mr. Debone just why it was he got fired. He'll likely lie to you about that as well.
I did ask him, and he did tell me he was fired for stealing. He is honest about that.

Obviously he thinks it was a huge conspiracy to push him out. My point was that REGARDLESS of why Dan Debone left, from that point on, there was very little innovation after he was gone.

Which is not a bad thing. It is a natural progression for most paintball companies to start out small, doing custom work, and building a customer base. It is hard to make a steady profit doing custom work. (ie Punisher, Doc, Tussing, Mollick, Carter, etc), so the custom shops usually gradually move away from unique, innovative items that are often never worth the labor put in, into mass produced items that can be made easily, and sold at a steady pace.

That paintball business model has worked from the mid 80s, to maybe a few years ago. The problem today is 95% of paintball products are now made in China. Nobody wants upgrades anymore. They just throw away last years gun, for the next model

Glenn, in hindsight, my original post did seem negative. I was trying to say that the problem is more the current MARKET for paintball. It is just a very hard industry to do custom work these days.
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Old 11-08-2008, 01:32 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Obviously, if Dan chooses to have it seen that way, he has not been as honest as you need to believe. However, I guess there was a consipacy, in the classic sense, between Lori (my office manager) and I to find out, beyond any doubt, just who it was that was ripping me off. Even though she had to take the polygraph exam too.
All that I'm trying to get at here is that Dan was not nearly the lead in the process of development here that he would have you think.
Regarding: "He was the lead tech, and the wizard behind most of the one-offs, and new designs (ie Nastys, triples, Blazer, other customs)." He actually had very little or no role in the development of any of that stuff.
I did build a custom gun for him and PPS has always and will continue to build what we can of what is asked of us. Even Dan participated in the building of "other customs", though mostly at my direction. He was also pretty good at getting my creative juices flowing, toward doing what I do best; figuring out how to make this stuff work. He was a pretty smart cookie but not quite all you make it out to be.
I'll leave it at that.
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Old 11-08-2008, 03:00 PM   #98 (permalink)
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He was a pretty smart cookie but not quite all you make it out to be. I'll leave it at that.
Well, your story does seem much more likely, though mine is far more sexier.
Thats what is so great about the internet- Unsubstatiated rumors.

Tell you what- Come to the next EMR Castle game, and I'll let you have one free punch. Followed by heavy drinking, and we will call it even.

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Old 11-08-2008, 03:17 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GP@PPS View Post
...I did build a custom gun for him and PPS has always and will continue to build what we can of what is asked of us...
I had a scratch-built Hurricane built for me in early 2006, and I've got another completely custom-built (ref: Glenn's quote above) that is in the works right now. When I first got my Hurc, the trigger and 4-way had misaligned, causing it to lock up and not reset the firing sequence. I talked with Craig a couple times and eventually got it straightened out. In retrospect, I was a little upset when I got it, but it took a little time to realize that the tight tolerances were misaligned during shipping. Ever since that time, I've been nothing but extremely satisfied with Palmers products and their people (employees and cult-fans!).

For such a company to continue to thrive in today's market is nothing short of amazing in my mind, based on the comments about today's mass-produced-overseas mindset. I applaud Glenn, Craig, and the crew for continuing to offer a superb experience for their customers. When you do have a problem, it's very easy to work with them on correcting it. I think that Craig's response was very to the point. He doesn't need to air all the dirty laundry to the interwebz here, but he did make it very clear that they were taking care of the problem.

One point that I think warrants more attention: when people said that they got things they "didn't ask for" or that they "assumed" would be done a certain way, I can understand the frustration. However, let me offer a suggestion/solution. When I have had equipment worked on or new markers created from PPS, I always wrote a detailed, typed document for them to reference. In my mind, if you ask for what you want with enough specifics, then you'll get what you want. Case-in-point: when I ordered H2103, I had a one-page Word document that said very clearly that I wanted a single-barrel right feed Hurc w/standard bore, single spiral vent, 13" barrel, muzzle break, sight rail, sight pin, Female Stab. on Hurc mount bracket, wrinkle-black powdercoat, and the word "Tempest" engraved on the left side of the barrel. I also sent a file by email to Craig for the "Old English Text MT" font that I wanted him to use for the engraving. I don't pretend to think that everyone has this level of detail in mind when they order something, but it certainly helps the creator/worker understand what you want.

This is just a suggestion, I'll bet PPS thinks I'm slightly neurotic as for this newer project that was commissioned back in April, I included 4 pages: one of text and 3 more including pictures with detailed specifics on what I wanted. Based on the pictures Lori sent me of in-progress shots, I'm getting exactly that and more: they are "wow"-ing my expectations!

Good luck getting the KP fixed, as loyal customers, we know Craig and gang will make it right for ya. And if you're still not happy, there are plenty of gun-hoarders who will pay ya a reasonable sum for it ;-)
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Old 11-08-2008, 03:20 PM   #100 (permalink)
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Blah. I want a Blazer...
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