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View Poll Results: What do you like better?
Macro Line 28 31.46%
Steel Braided Hose 40 44.94%
I dont care, Weecrack Is wierd and Smells Like poo 21 23.60%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-13-2009, 02:48 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Heat shrink tubing comes in all colors of the rainbow, so you can really show your pride!

I have yet to find a fitting for Macroline that has a working pressure of greater than 290 psi. Most macro line is rated lower than that. The general rule of thumb is 250 working pressure with a 4:1 safety ratio (ie min burst should be 1000 psi).

The main disadvantage of macro other than going over recomended rating is that every time you air up/down it gets a little weaker. The fitting holds the line with little teeth that dig into the tube. Each time you air up the marker the teeth wiggle around a little bit and their bite/hold isn't as secure. A high quality fitting and line will last longer but it is a matter of time, weeks or months, maybe years if you don't play often but you buy the good stuff. This issue can be made worse from high or low temp as well as abuse.

Macroline when used for paintball is beyond intended pressure and getting more abuse than it was meant to take.
But it works and is an easy fix.

Braided Stainless Steel hose is a more durable option. the inner tube is usually teflon or ptfe, or nylon. The outer braid is often for abrasion protection. Plus your connections are crimped on which have a much higher rating.

Personally I use macro when dialing in a gun/reg/etc. Once I've got it where I want it I put on the ss. For ss you can usually find a shop in your area that will make them to length for you.


Quote:
the tank output is 650, it is regulated down to 100-150
Huh? it was my understanding that most HPA tanks are either 850 or 450, on any gun with a reg that is where the pressure is lower before entering the gun.
So from the tank to the ASA to the Reg the pressure is 850, then it is lowered going out of the reg...
So the line from the ASA is holding 850psi
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Last edited by Carbide; 05-13-2009 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:05 AM   #52 (permalink)
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myths put out about 650, and you can always have adjustables.

yes they usually are, but if they pop or break, you can't hold anyone liable for them.
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:57 AM   #53 (permalink)
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I mean if a macroline pops, its nothign really serious, Cept your goin to lose your air, and you outta that game

Unless you have a shut off....

I like my SB lines, i feel there more secure , though a pain in the *** to install i trust them more
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Old 05-14-2009, 08:32 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha434 View Post
Secondly, macroline is rated by tensile strength, which is very different from max pressure. Macroline guy sells the good stuff. End story.
Completely false.

Macroline is rated by "working pressure", just like all other pneumatic components. That is the STANDARD the industry uses to compared products.

The macroline that Macrolineguy sells is rated about 600psi. Very strong for macroline, but not sutable for paintball, unless using an low-pressure HPA tank.

The "Working Pressure" is the max that it can safety handle. Thats what it means. Macrolineguy knows this, since I've talked to him about it many times. He REFUSES to list the "Working Pressure" because it is under 800psi.

He instead lists the tensile ratings which ARE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THING. He assumes that many people are idiots and are going to think that the 3000psi figure means it can hold up to 3000psi. Look at PBN. Its full of people who think that.

To run co2, you need components rated to 2000psi working pressure.
To run HP-HPA, you need components rated to 1000psi working pressure.

The math is pretty simple. You need components rated OVER your operating pressure.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:24 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP_Lovecraft View Post
To run co2, you need components rated to 2000psi working pressure.
To run HP-HPA, you need components rated to 1000psi working pressure.

The math is pretty simple. You need components rated OVER your operating pressure.
No, you don't actually *need* that. You don't actually *need* anything. You can put a 100 psi burst rated macro on and blow it every time if you want, that's your prerogative.

The ratings are just a standard so people can understand the mechanical properties of a given object. People weigh their own application against the standard and determine how they want to utilize the part. There is no saying, necessarily, what is right or wrong.

Working pressure is a factor of burst pressure, so by definition we should not be expecting burst anywhere near working pressure. The burst pressure of this line is well above even HP pressures.The so-called "safety factor" is to a certain degree subjective, particularly for end users, and is affected by things that include personal safety assessment.

That is to say, if the consequences of failure are not severe, the safety factor can be pushed lower. This is why overpressurizing macroline isn't a big deal while overpressurizing a tank even a little is scary as ****.

BTW there is some nylon-11 line of similar specifications to the type sold by Macrolineguy with ~1000 psi working pressure.

This is now officially an age-old argument but I'd say the results speak for themselves. .050 wall macro like Macrolineguy sells works quite well and successfully in paintball HPA applications, there are essentially no reports of failure of this type of macro despite the huge installed base.

Last edited by drg; 05-14-2009 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 05-19-2009, 06:39 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha434 View Post
Secondly, macroline is rated by tensile strength, which is very different from max pressure.
The material has a given tensile strength, true, but you certainly don't want to pick a macroline based on that. The burst pressure is going to be based on the tensile strength as well as the inside and outside diameters - if you had a mythical macroline with a 15kpsi tensile strength and a .025 wall, it would have a lower burst and working pressure than macroline with a 7.5kpsi tensile strength and a .050 wall.

As others have stated, the fittings themselves actually have a very low working pressure - I've never heard myself of a fitting 'exploding' (i.e. metal failure of the body), though I have heard of the locking ring popping out on Camozzi fittings (never heard of it happening on the Norgrens or Legris fittings, but Legris are seldom seen in paintball).

The biggest thing to remember is that macroline and microline should be replaced if you're using it as a 'quick disassembly' method - push-to-connect fittings were designed for quick assembly of industrial equipment, not repeated assembly and disassembly. The grab ring has teeth that actually bite into the plastic tubing and will eventually wear a groove into the tubing (plus the end wear roughs up the surface, making it harder to seal against the internal o-ring). Best thing to do is to cut your macro just a bit long, and trim the end by 1/4" or so after a half dozen assembly/disassembly cycles.

Now, having said all that, I like braided myself.
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:56 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drg View Post
People weigh their own application against the standard and determine how they want to utilize the part. There is no saying, necessarily, what is right or wrong.
So lets just let people put 5000psi into 3000psi HPA tanks. They can bypass the burst disc. Sure, that scares YOU, but since you think that people are free to set there own safety standards, then who cares? While we are at it, lets let people set there own FPS and BPS standards. Heck, while limit calibers as well.

There is an industry standard for pneumatics. You can ignore it, and make up your own. I can I can call myself a "doctor" or "policeman" if I want. But standards exist for a reason.

Quote:
This is now officially an age-old argument but I'd say the results speak for themselves.
All I asked was for him to post the pressure limits because he was PURPOSELY misleading people. Yes, I agree that his sells the stronger variety of macroline, but only if you assume that his specs are accurate, and not misleading with those as well.
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:09 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP_Lovecraft View Post
So lets just let people put 5000psi into 3000psi HPA tanks.
Actually I directly addressed your example:

Quote:
The so-called "safety factor" is to a certain degree subjective, particularly for end users, and is affected by things that include personal safety assessment.

That is to say, if the consequences of failure are not severe, the safety factor can be pushed lower. This is why overpressurizing macroline isn't a big deal while overpressurizing a tank even a little is scary as ****.
Nobody necessarily stops someone from putting 5000 psi into a 3000 psi HPA tank. However people monitor fills more closely and have a lower tolerance for safety margins due to the consequences of failure. Normally the burst disc would blow in any event; again given the severity of failure, additional safety features are built into such systems.

That's not to say safety margins with HPA tanks are not universally enforced either. Flash fills are very common, and are technically unsafe, but in this case a subjective factor again limits the response and enforcement -- heat-related failures of paintball HPA tanks are essentially unheard-of.

Last edited by drg; 05-19-2009 at 08:14 PM.
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