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-   -   Two Tiny DSG Modifications (http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/dukie/178984-two-tiny-dsg-modifications.html)

Omega Chief 10-13-2011 02:49 PM

Two Tiny DSG Modifications
 
Lever changer clanks about/marred finish, used heat-shrink.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6165/...1cf077b0_z.jpg

Wanted to cut back on (tiny) binding here:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6218/...ceeef6c7_z.jpg

So cut a delrin spacer for here:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6220/...3b0e068c_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6178/...9a29ac1e_z.jpg

This lifts the cocking arm up just a fraction to essentially eliminate any slight catching. Pump resistance increases just a touch, but because it is delrin it does not become rough/binding or anything like that. Slightly heavier but smoother stroke as a result.

PistolRogue 10-13-2011 04:47 PM

See I actually had to make a spacer for underneath the pump arm, but that's because when I re-did it with the wood stuff, it was pointing ever so slightly up. Same principle just applied differently. Good call on heat-shrinking the handle as well.

dukie 10-13-2011 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega Chief (Post 2042324)
Lever changer clanks about/marred finish, used heat-shrink.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6165/...1cf077b0_z.jpg

Wanted to cut back on (tiny) binding here:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6218/...ceeef6c7_z.jpg

So cut a delrin spacer for here:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6220/...3b0e068c_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6178/...9a29ac1e_z.jpg

This lifts the cocking arm up just a fraction to essentially eliminate any slight catching. Pump resistance increases just a touch, but because it is delrin it does not become rough/binding or anything like that. Slightly heavier but smoother stroke as a result.

The heat shrink isn't a bad idea!

Not sure why the pump arm is hitting that screw head It should have the same clearance as the guide screw. Measure the shank length if you have a chance.

Grazingshot 10-13-2011 07:05 PM

I like both of these, I'm having the same issue with the pump arm sitting high so it hit the head of the rear screw. I've backed out the rear screw a bit to compensate, it's got enough thread it's not been a problem but I've been worried about it backing itself out more during play and losing it, I'll have to rig up something similar.

Omega Chief 10-13-2011 10:11 PM

Both bolts have the same length shank, as indicated in this photo:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6153/...aa525110_z.jpg

Measurement was taken just behind the head of the bolt, and is measured to the end of the shank. However when both bolts are fully tightened the hammer bolt is substantially shorter. As in, it sticks out from the bottom of the marker less than the guide/feed bolt does.

What may also be an issue is a bit of play in the feedtube. I'm not sure how much it is supposed to have, but i can wiggle the feed just a hair when the marker is fully assembled. Since this serves as the pump guide it does of course affect the angle of the cocking rod as a result. So it would be possible to either catch the hammer bolt head or not depending upon if you were twisting the pump back a hair when you cocked the marker or not. (thus tilting the feedtube closer to the barrel than parallel, and making the cocking rod angle downwards a hair as a result)

Sorry if that paragraph makes no sense.

dukie 10-13-2011 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega Chief (Post 2042878)
Both bolts have the same length shank, as indicated in this photo:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6153/...aa525110_z.jpg

Measurement was taken just behind the head of the bolt, and is measured to the end of the shank. However when both bolts are fully tightened the hammer bolt is substantially shorter. As in, it sticks out from the bottom of the marker less than the guide/feed bolt does.

What may also be an issue is a bit of play in the feedtube. I'm not sure how much it is supposed to have, but i can wiggle the feed just a hair when the marker is fully assembled. Since this serves as the pump guide it does of course affect the angle of the cocking rod as a result. So it would be possible to either catch the hammer bolt head or not depending upon if you were twisting the pump back a hair when you cocked the marker or not. (thus tilting the feedtube closer to the barrel than parallel, and making the cocking rod angle downwards a hair as a result)

Sorry if that paragraph makes no sense.

Well that rules out a short on in the hammer. I do use some 1/2" shoulders int he DRV.

There should only be 1/32" difference in spacing between the botl heads and the cocking arm. The front bolt should go through the pump arm, through the breech, through the feedtube and bottom out on the front plug. There is likely a little bit of movement since it has to be assembled/dissasembled in the field by end users. Some end users like to hammers instead of taking their time.... or worse yet an arbor press

They should be .625" long. I'll verify the one I have at the shop tommorow. They should be a min of .615"

Don't recall ever having run into this one before. i'll look at the one in the shop to see what I can see.

Omega Chief 10-13-2011 11:03 PM

I found a tiny o-ring to slip over the hammer bolt, and I think this will be a perfect fix to what you've described Grazingshot. It is small enough to fit into the depression where the bolt threads into the hammer. I think that the o-ring would need to be small enough to not surpass the outer diameter of the bolt shank, because any rubbing on the receiver would likely cause erratic (or at least lower) velocity.

This has done two things, it has extended my hammer bolt just a hair (enough to prevent any rubbing) and the rubber also dampens vibration. This seems to prevent the hammer bolt from backing out a turn or two as it typically does after firing a few shots. (although the bolt will not continue to back out past this in my experience)

However the sound of dry firing leads me to believe I've lost a touch of hammer bounce. Perhaps it is still adding a touch of resistance. I'll have to wait to properly test if it has any ill effect upon velocity or consistency.

Another solution would be perhaps a nylon set screw in the hammer itself to put pressure upon the threads (like on a Phantom TPC). Due to the thread-sert used in the hammer this would likely be unfeasible, and not worth the very very minor returns. Perhaps a better solution would be to have a deeper recess around the thread-sert to allow a small o-ring to seat entirely within the hammer. This would prevent any potential rubbing that could affect consistency.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6230/...05c929ce_z.jpg

Take note that I don't see any of this as being a significant or in any way substantial issue. I'm only having fun with the details as I am inclined to tinker.

dukie 10-13-2011 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega Chief (Post 2042945)
I found a tiny o-ring to slip over the hammer bolt, and I think this will be a perfect fix to what you've described Grazingshot. It is small enough to fit into the depression where the bolt threads into the hammer. I think that the o-ring would need to be small enough to not surpass the outer diameter of the bolt shank, because any rubbing on the receiver would likely cause erratic (or at least lower) velocity.

This has done two things, it has extended my hammer bolt just a hair (enough to prevent any rubbing) and the rubber also dampens vibration. This seems to prevent the hammer bolt from backing out a turn or two as it typically does after firing a few shots. (although the bolt will not continue to back out past this in my experience)

However the sound of dry firing leads me to believe I've lost a touch of hammer bounce. Perhaps it is still adding a touch of resistance. I'll have to wait to properly test if it has any ill effect upon velocity or consistency.

Another solution would be perhaps a nylon set screw in the hammer itself to put pressure upon the threads (like on a Phantom TPC). Due to the thread-sert used in the hammer this would likely be unfeasible, and not worth the very very minor returns. Perhaps a better solution would be to have a deeper recess around the thread-sert to allow a small o-ring to seat entirely within the hammer. This would prevent any potential rubbing that could affect consistency.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6230/...05c929ce_z.jpg

Take note that I don't see any of this as being a significant or in any way substantial issue. I'm only having fun with the details as I am inclined to tinker.

I use to do that back in the day on screws that tended to back out on my razorback. The oring in a disposable lighter regulator is abosultely perfect for this. Its TINY. They don't last long on screws that are removed a lot though.

There is no thread insert in the hammer. Its a solid piece of stainless. Well solid except for the holes in it. You can snug that one with an allen key. Your not likely to strip it out.

Smiley 10-14-2011 07:17 AM

You can also reduce the diameter of the head on the cocking/hammer bolt.


http://www.paintballcity.org/images/Smiley/dsg010.jpg

Omega Chief 10-14-2011 12:50 PM

^ Ah, brilliant simplicity. Just take the head off of it!

Interesting about that o-ring Dukie, I had no idea there were good ones inside of lighters. I'll have to look into it. Ah, I see you're right about the threads on there. Not sure what I was thinking, I think the recessed area around the threads led me to believe it was a thread-sert. That's usually why I see a cut like that but now I realize it's to allow the bolt to seat.


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