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Old 07-06-2014, 06:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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A moment for internal reflection...

I wanted to throw this out there because it got me thinking.

I was speaking with Scotty today and he mentioned that walk on attendance is "nothing" compared to last year. I was inclined to agree with this observation.

I then began to wonder - are we driving players away?

I always felt like we have a very honest, relaxed, and fun day. And we pride ourselves on that point. The GLO tournaments, tactical tournaments, stock class classic - they all have very similar goals - fun, good sportsmanship and limited paint. We have people who volunteer their times to organize events, work on fields, ref, take photos/video all things that point to "good character people". My personal feelings is that paintball needs more of this but...

...Is this really what the average baller wants? Part of me really believes that many paintball players want to come out, unleash 2 cases, and dominate the field at all costs with no regards for sportsmanship.

For example, the three speedballers who showed up today (side note: how did all three of them end up on the same team? Im assuming they ignored the count off?) with max bounce padding who decided it would be fun to colour me pink through the cracks and then chirp me on their walk off the field. we dealt with this by separating from them leaving them with a small game with maybe 3 renters. I also heard they later ripped into a renter/milsim guy for having crack shot them.Will they come back? My guess is no.Similarly alot of the players who used to play that style have seem to have left the field.

My question for internal reflection

Are we building a positive environment where our players exhibit exemplary sportsmanship and people who dont have these qualities don't feel like fit in and leave?

or

Are we perceived as snobby players, who exclude groups?

My gut feeling is the first option. In the end, we allow electros, mech guns, milsim but we tend to take a firm stance on higher rate of fire. Does this in itself "take the fun" out of the game for electro shooters? My feeling is that it doesnt need to. Take an electro and put a 40 round hopper on top. Can you still have a good time? Sure can.

So why dont they? Why does it have to be maximum spraying/bounce padding/do everything it takes to win or nothing? Most importantly, if they really want to play that style - could they not organize a group/have enough people come out and play their way? I mean sure, they dont agree with our values. Thats fine. Im sure you can find enough players for a walk on uncapped ROF game? Right? We can definitely coexist. there is room for more than 1 flavour. This would be very advantageous for our field (which is an important consideration)

But then I ask myself - Do you want people around who will take their electro, stack the teams (from today), hose the holy hell out of your bunker ensuring that if you poke your head out, you get destroyed, and then mock you as they walk off for not poking your head out? Is that not against the type of environment we are trying to build? I'm sure there are stand up speedballers, no doubt.

And I remind myself, I myself enjoy playing semi once in a while. If I came to a pump day with a semi, would I hose the **** out of everyone? Nope. Would I talk smack? Nope. Would I try to fit in (ie: maybe use a limited ammo style like everyone else is)? prolly.
So, its not really the gun that is the problem, so much as it is the person wielding it. Right? So in effect, the people who leave our field and dont come back; they dont leave because we dont play high rate of fire, they leave because they have different values.

Part of me feels the two are correlated - people with certain values are drawn towards speedball/higher rates of fire (which is ok). it just so happens that those values conflict with what I believe to be ours.

I also realized that in the past 2 years we always talked about having "Featuring Death exclusive days". pretty much every day this summer has been exactly that. Is that a good thing? We always used to dream of this. But it seems like for whatever reason, other ballers are not interested in this at all.

Anyways, some thoughts. Interested to see what you guys think. I truthfully dont know what I think amongst this...

Last edited by 300z; 07-06-2014 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 07-06-2014, 06:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I feel we build a positive environment. Many people who come and play with us agree, and we have many converts to limited paint and pump play to prove it. Just look at Kyle, Curtis and Vinnie as examples. When they first came to play they used electro's and were into speedball (they all still are) but they play with us in pump and limited paint play and have a blast too.

I agree with you, the guys that came today had a bad attitude and in my opinion are of no loss to the field if they don't come back. I watched Fudge and Ken play a 3 on 2 and one of those guys shot 5 pods and a hopper in a single game, the guy on his team with the pump did most of the work too btw.

Ottawa also seems to have pretty polarized groups of players. There are milsim guys where they just can't play anything but milsim and treat the game like a military exercise and won't tolerate anything else. You also get a bunch of guys that refuse to shoot anything but 20bps ramping and anything else is for losers. I find Ottawa has some of the worst player attitudes that I've ever seen.

I've also noticed that a lot of fields seem to be having troubles getting large groups of walkons out. The number of people playing in Ottawa seems to have gone down.
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Are we that intolerant as well though is part of my main question? Are we too locked into our style, and if yes, is that a bad thing?

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Ottawa also seems to have pretty polarized groups of players. There are milsim guys where they just can't play anything but milsim and treat the game like a military exercise and won't tolerate anything else. You also get a bunch of guys that refuse to shoot anything but 20bps ramping and anything else is for losers. I find Ottawa has some of the worst player attitudes that I've ever seen.

I've also noticed that a lot of fields seem to be having troubles getting large groups of walkons out. The number of people playing in Ottawa seems to have gone down.
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:16 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Are we that intolerant as well though is part of my main question? Are we too locked into our style, and if yes, is that a bad thing?
Intolerant? naw, I don't think so. We play with everyone, with very few issues. On a rec-ball SUnday sometimes it is annoying to get your bunker hammered on, but 9/10 we just play our game and ignore it.

Attendance is down in general. The new OHP (or whatever) grabbed people, KArters did too. We made the walk-on days as big as they got by being friendly, and having fun. (I would like to think)

I would like to see attendance back up, but I doubt the same players that helped create and foster a loyal following, are also responsible for driving people away.

Except maybe Derek,
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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ok, it is good to hear people reinforce what I was thinking.
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:40 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Are we friendly? Yes
Do we play nice with others? Yes

Can we come accross as snobs? Yes, some times those who don't enjoy our style will think of us as snobs because we won't change our ways to suit them. However, OXP is our home field and it is where I go to play with my friends in my preferred play style.

Do we exclude people? Yes we do at OXP, we did it today. We walked away from the heavy rate of fire game. I don't have a problem with that. Had we stayed then things would have gotten heated and no one would have had fun and we would have come off the field looking like very poor sports.


Is our attitude scaring people away? No I don't think so. But people do want to experience different kinds of paintball and some times they can't get that at OXP.

Also keep in mind we are at the hight of tourney season, so many of our regular walk on guys who cut their teeth at OXP are off playing in tournies


I also think there are other issues. Deek is only one of them.

The level of skill at OXP is very high. We have noticed this to be a problem amongst our selves... Imagine anyone who is less able to keep up? We may not be shooting them at 15bps but they probably still feel beat up...

Another issue l think is having a very serious impact on field attendance is the level of advertising the other fields do vs OXP...
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
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For full disclosure of where this was coming from:

When I ran the stock class classic literally nobody showed up other than stock class. I was worried at the time that it hurt the attendance of the field.

Once I thought about this today, i started to wonder if that was the first time our style had interfeered with the field.
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Old 07-06-2014, 08:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300z View Post
For full disclosure of where this was coming from:

When I ran the stock class classic literally nobody showed up other than stock class. I was worried at the time that it hurt the attendance of the field.

Once I thought about this today, i started to wonder if that was the first time our style had interfeered with the field.
I don't think so, since it was mostly advertised in the right circles of people not some big general announcement. Then again, I did hear a few people talking about how this was a tournament and they didn't want to play a tournament.
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:01 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Don't sweat it, electro players would not be having a similar thread on their ethics, if stock class players were not showing up/not playing with them.

Bottomline, SC play will always be perceived as an oddity cause no one in the last 15yrs really started with a pump.

View SC as the Bushido of paintball: "It's Our Chosen Path. "

On the flip side, I wish your field was slightly closer, you guys seem to have a great group for SC and righteous attitudes about this sport we love.
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Don't sweat it, electro players would not be having a similar thread on their ethics, if stock class players were not showing up/not playing with them.

Bottomline, SC play will always be perceived as an oddity cause no one in the last 15yrs really started with a pump.

View SC as the Bushido of paintball: "It's Our Chosen Path. "

On the flip side, I wish your field was slightly closer, you guys seem to have a great group for SC and righteous attitudes about this sport we love.
The field owner is a friend and good guy, it is important to a lot of guys that he succeed, or we won't have a great place to play anymore. I don't think most of us care at all what those guys think, but we do care if we are hurting our field (and with the amount of time some of these guys have put into it, I mean OUR field).

We are only a moving truck and house purchase away really.
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