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Old 07-01-2013, 05:29 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Just curious, was there any talk of producing a re-usable fsr? Something identical somehow so we can test, plink, or zero our markers? I think it would be great. It may be a tiny market but would be awesome for those of us that love tinkering and tuning our markers without making a mess
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Old 07-01-2013, 05:35 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Donut SD View Post
Just curious, was there any talk of producing a re-usable fsr? Something identical somehow so we can test, plink, or zero our markers? I think it would be great. It may be a tiny market but would be awesome for those of us that love tinkering and tuning our markers without making a mess

Here is the problem.

We would have to invest in making a reusable FS round that weights and travels the same as a standard fill FS round. Not sure how much time and cost can go into something like this (molding/materials/machinery). This is the reason why this is a project that is put on the backburner unfortunately.

Down the road it is possible, but I don't think we would see this anytime soon.
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:12 AM   #33 (permalink)
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There are easy enough ways to reuse your FS time and again. I just shoot mine into a trashbag filled with large-bubble, bubble wrap. Bubbles pop and hold round intact, typically.

I could see them not coming out with the re-usable FS round not solely as means of generating sales but the liability. Somebody being a tard and sending those things down range at me will get some serious $*#& started. And if someone gets hurt by them, it could endanger the company, and worse from a players POV, the FS rounds entirely. Last thing we need is an industry wide ban or increased hesitancy of field owners allowing us to use them.

Since we got a spokesmen from Tiberius here, I'd like to ask if we'll likely ever see a change to a more biodegradable biopolymer for your plastic? I LOVE your rounds. Have used them by thousands as my almost sole means of sending paint down range since they came out, BUT, I really am concerned about their biodegrablity. The photodegredation doesn't seem to work on the non-decade/non-generation time scale. Any chance you guys could maybe move over to something a little more likely to break down in a faster time frame? As a chemist who works with plastic routinely, I know they exist. Though I would think the easiest way would be to move to a gelatin front and a biodegradable polyurethane foam back and connect together similar to the supposed 1:2:1's.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:43 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by scottallen1986 View Post
...Since we got a spokesmen from Tiberius here, I'd like to ask if we'll likely ever see a change to a more biodegradable biopolymer for your plastic? I LOVE your rounds. Have used them by thousands as my almost sole means of sending paint down range since they came out, BUT, I really am concerned about their biodegrablity. The photodegredation doesn't seem to work on the non-decade/non-generation time scale. Any chance you guys could maybe move over to something a little more likely to break down in a faster time frame? As a chemist who works with plastic routinely, I know they exist. Though I would think the easiest way would be to move to a gelatin front and a biodegradable polyurethane foam back and connect together similar to the supposed 1:2:1's.
Just to be clear, Tiberius Arms does not manufacture First Strike rounds. They were designed and are made by another company, Perfect Circle Paintball. Tiberius Arms is responsible for marketing and sales.

I personally would like a more biodegradable round but any solution involving gelatin is an exceptionally bad idea. I'm tired (of nearly 20yrs) of rounds going out of round, swelling, becoming more bouncy, softening and getting flat spots (in any force fed feed design) just because the afternoon is a little warmer and more humid than the morning I started.

I personally wonder if a corn-based plastic (like that used in the hydrotec rounds) would be suitable for an FS round. I never experienced hydrotec rounds in person so, I couldn't answer if their shells break well enough against human tissues, or if it's rigid enough to hold a fin/skirt shape. Or even, if the material is too dense (meaning we would have to use less fill to get under the ASTM recommended weight).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kaye -in response to FS price critics
Unfortunately all of you have played the one "speedball" game of paintball for so long you can't conceive of other ways to do this and hence any new ideas seem stupid.
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:56 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Those hydrotec rounds do look neat. Curious about them as well.

I agree with the gelatin issue, though I do admit I don't like shooting someone close with the FS rounds because they aren't gelatin and hit harder than normal paint does. I ended up buying a tpx and loading it up with regular paint for 'close encounters' because I don't feel ok blasting someone 10 feet away with a FS round. Now those 1:2:1's I probably will be ok with because "hey it's just a paintball", but when it's plastic, I'm a bit hesitant.

Corn based bioplatic, soybean based, there is all kinds of stuff. I'm certain they could be swapped out easily enough.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:28 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I've been shooting into a sheet that I hung up and the rounds just hit it and fall to the ground unbroken, works great. As far as someone using "reusable FS's", it wouldn't be any different than using reballs, and as long as they are the same weight and shot at the same speeds, it wouldn't really be any different than a bounce of a regular FS.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:21 AM   #37 (permalink)
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As much as I like biodegradability, bio-plastic =/= biodegradability. Most of you bio-plastics are molecularly the same as normal plastic, just with a different feed-stock. A lot of your truly bio-degradable plastics would have the same or equally annoying problems as gelatin. I also suspect you would run into thermal processing issues for an injection process like FSR. Not to mention the price...

From the limited information that I've heard, the biggest issue that hydrotec had was the reliability of the encapsulation machines. New tech is very hard to bring forward unless you have a big bankroll. That's why a lot of PB tech is pulled from high margin industries, even the FSR. It's much easier to adapt something existing than start from a blank slate.

Last edited by Jmorell818; 07-03-2013 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:37 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jmorell818 View Post
As much as I like biodegradability, bio-plastic =/= biodegradability. Most of you bio-plastics are molecularly the same as normal plastic, just with a different feed-stock. A lot of your truly bio-degradable plastics would have the same or equally annoying problems as gelatin. I also suspect you would run into thermal processing issues for an injection process like FSR. Not to mention the price...

From the limited information that I've heard, the biggest issue that hydrotec had was the reliability of the encapsulation machines. New tech is very hard to bring forward unless you have a big bankroll. That's why a lot of PB tech is pulled from high margin industries, even the FSR. It's much easier to adapt something existing than start from a blank slate.
In my opinion, the encapsulation concept they were applying is problematic: Fill each half to perfectly level, hold together, ultrasonically weld. All while trying to reduce the air bubbles getting trapped in the ball and, preventing excess fill from interfering with the ultrasonic weld.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kaye -in response to FS price critics
Unfortunately all of you have played the one "speedball" game of paintball for so long you can't conceive of other ways to do this and hence any new ideas seem stupid.
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Old 07-03-2013, 01:28 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by uv_halo View Post
In my opinion, the encapsulation concept they were applying is problematic: Fill each half to perfectly level, hold together, ultrasonically weld. All while trying to reduce the air bubbles getting trapped in the ball and, preventing excess fill from interfering with the ultrasonic weld.
Exactly, not a process I would want to be in charge of maintaining. I thought it would have been easier to blow mold the shells except for a little on the top, fill, then weld a small patch to cover the fill hole. Not perfectly round, but close enough, cost probably would have been an issue though. I was never clear on how they made the shells; any idea if they were blown, stamped, or cast?
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Old 07-03-2013, 01:59 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I suspect stamped but, I'm not sure. I do know they remain in sheet form at least until after the halves are filled.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kaye -in response to FS price critics
Unfortunately all of you have played the one "speedball" game of paintball for so long you can't conceive of other ways to do this and hence any new ideas seem stupid.
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