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First Strike Everything first strike related

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Old 02-08-2013, 04:30 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Sorry, I have been doing the out of my mind thing. The hone is here.

I will run it through a hunk of brass barrel, and see what happens.

Thanks again,

Ty
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:18 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Well I'm going to jump the gun on Ty, as today may be the only time I can sit and give this the attention it is due for a few days.

These are some people who've tried the 1200LA, which the salesmen I talked to used to incorrectly call 800LA, now it's called Levigated Alumina/Extra Fine on the website.

Quote:
Originally Posted by biteweasel View Post
Well tried the newly honed barrel today, what a wondrous thing a flex hone is!
I was taking shot today I would not have bothered trying for before the hone.
Still missed my targets and had trouble seeing the green and black paint in the trees but overall I was very impressed with the long range distance.

Thanks to this thread and all help and posters, this is probably the best paintball investment I have made!
or Joedirt199's thread here:
flexhone LA super fine 18" is awsome

I didn't hone any barrels for these guys, they are people who shelled out $40 on my advice.

I wanted to make clear I don't offer any honing service!
Even if I did mine is at Ty's house!

Joedirt199 was honing barrels for people at the OSC.

People normally just get one or go in with their team on one. It literally only takes 5 minutes per barrel and doesn't need to be done again for a season or two. A hone has a lifetime of hundreds of barrels.

My apologies for spelling all that out, my inbox is creaking.



If we imagine a first strike traveling on it's way out the barrel in a snug bore, it is sealed(mostly) at the seam. Behind it expanding gas is pushing in the cup accelerating it. However gas has also filled the angled chambers against the wall between the back of the skirt and the seam. This gas is essentially trapped in those chambers by the increasing pressure behind it, except as it escapes forward between the seam and the barrel wall.
The kind of sidewall turbulence I'm referring to is giving a first strike round a beating all the way down the barrel, but the truth is the net effect in this case is pretty much zero.
The increased structural integrity of the round means it's not bent, bowed or flexed in any way, no wave can be started in the fill.

HOWEVER! The last fraction of an inch before the muzzle matters a ton. Any force that acts on it as it leaves the muzzle will have an effect on it's flight. The longer that flight happens to be for that particular round, the greater that effect will be.
Again, honing doesn't make it shoot further or make it more accurate for any given shot, though it's easy to perceive it that way. It actually makes it more consistent shot to shot, so it's suddenly easier to predict where our next shot will go.
So essentially, in the case of snug bore first strikes, I am honing the whole barrel when all that's necessary to do is a weddingband sized ring at the muzzle.
This would appear anticlimactic to onlookers, so I always do the whole barrel anyway...

In the case of oversized bores, it can be even more dramatic with the first strike leaving the muzzle pointing a few degrees off from the direction of travel.

However, as with arrows and darts, wind resistance aligns the first strike with the path of travel immediately and starts spinning it. The small difference in direction, speed and spin may not even be noticeable at 1S shots at ranges to 250'.
Further than that I can really tell the difference. My groups are much smaller.

Rob
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:36 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Will it work on a rifled barrel.I am asuming it will.??
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:07 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Yes, but what it does to improve the barrel is plateau the lands, which are all a ball or first strike touches in a rifled barrel and removes any microscopic burrs from their edges. It helps.
Though this particular hone hasn't been used much in paintball, it IS used in custom firearm barrel making. If you own a Browning A-Bolt rifle or a lot of high end sniper type rifles, your barrel was honed with a flexhone.

Rob
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:27 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Should it be used with the direction of the rifling or is it going to matter?
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:04 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Does it leave a worn anno look when its honed?
After inspecting my .687 flasc 9" back i can see residue/streaked in the last half inch or so all the way around in the barrel just before my extensions begins this is after 200 FS.

Another thing a friend of mine noticed when i was shooting my DAM my Firststrikes swooshed more then the tiberiusshooter at the field with FS sounded with a rifled barrel at about the same fps.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:35 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeserocket View Post
swooshed more then the tiberiusshooter at the field with FS sounded with a rifled barrel at about the same fps.
Did you mean the FS shot with your DAM gave a percieved appearance of the FS sounding louder as it swooshed over the target?
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:14 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Casper,
In the case of a rifled barrel and a new hone you'd definitely want to do 10 down and back strokes, then switch directions and do 10 more, then swab and inspect it. If I saw anything on the lands or their edges, i'd give it 10 more each way.
Switching directions is the best way to clear any microburrs from either side of the lands with the least work.
As our team is sponsored by Hammerhead, you can imagine I've done a few.

The numbers of strokes are mostly to preserve the hone with the LA hone. It doesn't remove material very much.
With an 800AO hone this many strokes would open the bore .005-.006, the LA might open it .001.

Cheeserocket,
I'm not sure where you mean either. If it's whooshing more at the target side, that might mean it was damaging the 1S's as it fires them. At the gun it'd be natural with a rifle/non-rifled depending on condition of the smooth barrel..
Honing doesn't generally change the look of the anno much seen head-on, but when you look down the length of the barrel the walls should be a perfect mirror. When I hone kits I put them together to hone where sections meet as one.

Rob
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:58 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjron99 View Post
Did you mean the FS shot with your DAM gave a percieved appearance of the FS sounding louder as it swooshed over the target?
Just like that
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:49 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Sorry to add confusion while waiting for the physics behind agentSmith's observations, but has anyone gathered data on the effect of the Apex barrel tip like what UV presented for FS. I thought I had run across such data a couple years back, but I can't seem to locate it.

Also, one question for agentSmith--what vertical angle do you need to achieve your long shots. And then to UV, does the angle correspond with drag, lift and drop estimates--does flex honing affect just consistency or does it add something else to the inner to outer ballistics computations?

And much thanks to you both for all the unselfish work!

Tom
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