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View Poll Results: Should FSR Go Mainstream?
Yes, DSA you are full of it! 9 20.93%
Let's wait and see.... 21 48.84%
No, not yet we are not ready for this advancement. 14 32.56%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-17-2013, 05:04 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Don't ruin my fun because someone else can't hack it.

First strike rounds retain their velocity more so than normal paintballs. That is the reason why they "hurt" more.
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:10 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I agree with the above!!
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:54 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I think the paintball industry (to include magazines, manufacturers, field operators, etc) stop trying to pitch the sport to kids. Let kids join the sport when they're man/woman enough to take the hits.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kaye -in response to FS price critics
Unfortunately all of you have played the one "speedball" game of paintball for so long you can't conceive of other ways to do this and hence any new ideas seem stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Death View Post
First strike rounds punish lazy people. Don't be lazy and you won't have problems with first strikes.
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:57 PM   #34 (permalink)
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But they dont actually hurt more. And which one hurts more. Getting shot by a string of paintballs or an fsr
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:58 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Death View Post
Don't ruin my fun because someone else can't hack it.

First strike rounds retain their velocity more so than normal paintballs. That is the reason why they "hurt" more.

Im not disagreeing with either side but, we should as a group come to understanding you shoot a 12 year old with a FS round right off the bat and he barely introduced to paintball you wont see him again garanteed and that would be horrible. We need to help one another in understanding boundries with the younger group so they want to return.Also yes they do retain there velocity no denying that but they also are made of a plastic more dense product not the gelatin substance used for the outer shell of a paintball. If anyone has specs please submit on here so people can compare.Thank you.
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:41 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Here's a couple datasets to consider:
My drop test where I tested if heating the skirts in boiling water affected their fragility. I subjected the treatment to 20 rds and I left another group of 20 aside for a control group.

I dropped each round onto an MDF Board from a measured height of 8ft.

All of them (in both groups) broke.

This is in comparison to a punkworks test where they did the same with multiple groups of regular paint. The best paint in their group (DXS Gold), under the same conditions (except they used an oak board) broke only 15 out 20 on the first drop. The worst (DXS Triumph) had only 7 out of 20 break on the first drop.
To understand how paintballs (and FS rounds interact) with our bodies, think about the rounds impacting in slow motion. A paintball hits the surface of your skin. At the first millisecond of impact, some of that inertia is expended when the flexible ball distorts. At the same time, your skin/fat is being pushed/squished away from the impact. The longer the paintball holds together, the greater the amount of it's inertia is applied to you. This is what makes balls like monsterball, or winter paint in the summer hurt worse. They hold together longer and transfer more of their energy into you.

As soon as the rounds break, and the mass of the paint and shell spreads outwards, less of that energy is transferred into you because the mass is being transferred into a lateral direction (spreading out the splat). This is why tourney paint and, FS rounds tend to hurt less (if arriving at the same velocity).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kaye -in response to FS price critics
Unfortunately all of you have played the one "speedball" game of paintball for so long you can't conceive of other ways to do this and hence any new ideas seem stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Death View Post
First strike rounds punish lazy people. Don't be lazy and you won't have problems with first strikes.
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:47 PM   #37 (permalink)
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To add: In my opinion, if fields want to attract the youth and they can't take the hit of FS rounds or .68 balls, let them play with .50 or .43 in their own games.

Don't tell me that FS shots fired under the field limit are somehow worse/more intimidating/risky than a shot fired from a regular gun under the same limit- especially if there are no rules at the field about bunkering and they rely on the 'semi-auto only rule' while allowing double finger trigger electros.
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FN303SD Totmacher 13 | SP 'Woodstalker' Ion | 1989 Line SI Bushmaster SI Deluxe
First Strike Round Field Listing | External Ballistics, FSRs and PBs | My Feedback
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kaye -in response to FS price critics
Unfortunately all of you have played the one "speedball" game of paintball for so long you can't conceive of other ways to do this and hence any new ideas seem stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Death View Post
First strike rounds punish lazy people. Don't be lazy and you won't have problems with first strikes.
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:54 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Food for Thought

The following came from the SR-1 section, but I thought this is where we can talk about it like civilized cannibals.

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Originally Posted by Hooligan View Post
D-Day was a sick joke that cost me way too much money. Yall didn't miss much. The week before the big game was kinda fun, pretty confusing on the mini games and what they were good for, points, props, etc. The sniper course was ok, the shoot was a joke. " Ok can you shoot a round through a 3'x'4 open square at 20'?" You pass! The stalk was fun, but I wish they would have told us about the prizes instead of just letting people stumble over them and keep them. Basically, I paid $20 to be able to get a sniper card that let me on the field 2 hours early on Saturday. Oh yeah, It let me use another grade of paint that I had to buy. And of course, no first strike sniper paint. So that's 2 cases of normal graffiti, one case of white fill graffiti, and 340 firststrikes........

The mag fed game was a blast, except for a certain pro team face raping with Dam's. I have a new attitude about the Dam after the week at D-day. I never saw one used responsibly. Do you really need to burst fire first strikes at some one who is already out? I'm pretty sure I'm in someones video, yelling " Let the player out" at the top of my lungs.

My Saturday was cut short early after an eliminated tank came up and shot about 30 of us in the back way too many times. On the next reinsert, I was called out by the allies to be a sniper and they let me have it. SEVEN shots to the back of the head as I was trying to walk off of the field. I'm still having twitch/ vision issues with my right eye. I tried to tell a ref that I was marked, please go pull their honor tags for overshooting a dead man. He told me that I didn't know how to play paintball and that my own team was shooting me in the back of the head cause I had advanced too far....

On the plus side, the vendors were awesome, the paint was great and I made friends with the Carmatech guys. Great guys on and off of the field.
We won't be going back to D-Day again. We are thinking about a road trip to Living Legends next year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DSA View Post
Oh man that is disappointing. It sounds like the reffing has not changed changed much in the past few years. On our last trip the 82nd Airborne a blue team all used red tape to secure their gear to their LBE's when I mentioned it to the refs the just laughed. I mentioned it to the players the snickered, I mentioned it to the promoter and it was ignored.

As for your statement of the DAM overshooting, I suspected as much that is why I posted the FSR Mainstream thread.

That being said, it is still the biggest game around and is probably a monster to manage. There will always be problems and overshooting issues. As for jerks, our sport seems to attract them in droves, especially deep pocket jerks who can afford to spray and pray with FSR. As for pro teams slamming players just remember, just because they call themselves pros and win money at questionable tournaments dose not mean they are Professionals. A truly professional team would disband at a big game like D-Day and mentor younger players. This is where the sport fails.

Lastly, I would say hold off on being so doom and gloom, be an ambassador for the big game, contact Dewayne and in a very tactful and professional way explain your expierence and just hope he cares. The Sniper role seems to have been a last minute effort and might need to be revamped.

Maybe we the sniper community could pull together and submit our own criteria for consideration. I am disappointed that snipers were charged an additional $20.00 to play a sniper role, reeks of greed not evolution.

Tell me, in order to play a sniper was there a limitation on the equipment used? Example single shot rifles for true snipers or was it just another way to make money and if you had the extra $20.00 regardless of gear, you were miraculously deemed to be a sniper?

I hope this is just growing pains for the sniper class. I hope with the help of the community we can effect changes to the roles with the help of Dorsai and his legondary connection with the sport.

My vote would be to make it a crime for anyone to take out a sniper but a sniper ala Enemy at the Gates Scenario. Lets start there.
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All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to shoot nothing.
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:04 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by deathsoldier View Post
Hear me out! Not allowing players to play with your group because of a round is not helping the group or the game of paintball grow either. i hope you have considered maybe changing rules that no one uses fs rounds to keep the playing field more equal. If you use them you get kicked. i had friends and players using fs rounds they didnt realize the impact on the little ones till after the games. We adjusted and everyone had fun. The most important thing about our sport is the players and fans. My research show the new rounds coming to the table will fix the issues everyone has with FS rounds. When all you care about is profit and stop caring about the customer you will fail and it will be shown in the future. I look forward to what paintball has evolved to. and everyday things are getting more exciting!!!
It's a private group, it's up to them who they allow to play in with their group as well as what equipment those they allow in are allowed to use. Simple as that. They decided it wasn't for them due to the age of some of their players.

Personally, that strikes me as a testament to the state of the game. It's sad that players are forced to make their own groups and play privately just to protect younger kids from the growing number of abusive players.

Those same abusive players will also be the biggest detriment to FS acceptance IMO.
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I'd wipe, play-on and overshoot.
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:35 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSA View Post
The following came from the SR-1 section, but I thought this is where we can talk about it like civilized cannibals.
Ugggh, so many issues between those two posts.

I don't know much about how snipers were handled at the event level. I know Dorsai, on the Allies side, had a pretty thought out list of ideas for their use on his side.

I think a lot of scenario promoters are still trying to wrap their head around them. I personally would advocate that they be written into the scenario such that if someone get marked by a special filled FS round, they are out with no healing option (simulating the lethality of sniper fire), and specific individual targets (generals, props, etc) be worth points. I would also support each side having a limited number of these individuals (much like how rocket shooters are regulated). I personally, wouldn't have a problem with ROF restrictions (mechanical Semi-Auto Only, with no RT/etc, or electros with BPS turned way down, i.e. Billy Ball mode), and restrictions on large capacity magazines (however, I think 'large capacity' may be debatable).

On one hand, I like the idea of 'pre-qual' but, I'd hate to be the one to drive 800+ miles and for nothing but bad luck fail the pre-qual. then if you extend that out, one side could have more folks pre-qual than the other and that could introduce further problems. Another problem would be those that take a 'sniper' position only so they can run around in a ghillie/bounce suit, and fire FS like they normally shoot paint. That's what we need to prevent- I propose equipment restrictions like I mentioned above.

A related problem with large scenarios like this is that they get frequented by loads of folks just looking for the "Big Game" and they bring their typical 'speedball in the woods' mindset.

If I have a problem with an event that's not handled to my satisfaction (within reason) by the ref staff, I have no qualms about going directly to the promoter, at the event.
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FN303SD Totmacher 13 | SP 'Woodstalker' Ion | 1989 Line SI Bushmaster SI Deluxe
First Strike Round Field Listing | External Ballistics, FSRs and PBs | My Feedback
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kaye -in response to FS price critics
Unfortunately all of you have played the one "speedball" game of paintball for so long you can't conceive of other ways to do this and hence any new ideas seem stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Death View Post
First strike rounds punish lazy people. Don't be lazy and you won't have problems with first strikes.
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