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Old 03-04-2014, 05:43 AM   #1 (permalink)
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FS centrifuge

When FS first were sold they were in tubes which had them nose down. Then they offered them in 100 round boxes. I noticed very quickly that that the 100 round boxed rounds always were less accurate. Significantly so. Figured out a while later this was due to the paint being settled randomly in the rounds. If you keep them pointed nose down in 10 round tubes this helps reduce the inconsistencies. We all know this to be standard of practice now, years later.

But the issue arises when you don't have weeks/months before your game to prep them nose down/weigh them/inspect them. What happens when you have to buy them day of or you totally forgot to get some a month before the game?

Introducing the new el cheapo mini-centrifuge!







-Take a piece of plastic or wood, cut it in a circle.
-Epoxy on some cut up 10 rounds tubes equally spaced across from one another so the thing is properly weighted on all sides. I cut 2" from the bottom of the tubes so it would fit 3 FS rounds nose down.
-Stuff some foam into the tubes so the rounds don't fall out when loading/unloading.
-Drill a bolt through the middle.
-Make a pvc holder with a 90 elbow and a drill a hole through that.
-Use a drill to spin the bolt and thereby your circle and zoom zoom zoom!

10 seconds with a low power drill yielded perfectly and uniformly nose settled paint. I was using a 468 with a HH barrel and was out shooting my opponents all day at the Magfed Mayham this last weekend. Multiple 75-100 yard hits at only 260fps. Example: Guy on one side of pond was shooting round after round right at me and they kept going to the left to the right. Almost there, but never quite what he needed. I just threw my gun up and fired off one shot right into him. Straight as an arrow. I attribute that, partly, to spinning down the paint. (We had to buy the FS for the event, day of.)

Now some of you who may have access to real world centrifuges, don't use those. I may or may not have already tried this... with a very expensive 1500rpm Eppendorf centrifuge at a certain chemical lab... and from what I heard, people still want to know 'where the heck that blue paint on the walls came from'. So yeaaaa don't do that...
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:50 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I also wondered if anyone else did this with field-paint-only first strikes. My method were going to be a little different, but the result is the same. I was gonna line a salad spinner with a piece of perforated foam, spin a whole box of paint at once!

Or in a jam, you could tie a shoelace to a 10-round tube and whip it around somewhere you won't hit anyone.

Edit: on a related note, what hammerhead barrel are you using?
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Old 03-04-2014, 02:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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This is awesome (in a good way) and hilarious!

I agree that if one were to store FS rounds vertically, and then shoot them immediately, there could be a noticible difference in performance.

However, I have some reservations about doing something like this.

1- The fill may separate more than it already does. Separation may decrease the marking ability of the fill. In other words, if the fill is a solid (powder) in suspension, and the powder is heavier than the liquid, a centrifuge may pull the powder out of suspension, and then it may not stick as well to your target.

2- For those shooting magfed, how long does it take the fill to reposition itself? a minute? a half hour? and hour? If the rounds come out of the centrifuge perfectly balanced, who's to say that by the time they end up in the breach for firing, that fill hasn't already settled to another orientation.

I believe that this may be a benefit of a rifled barrel, there might not be enough of it but, the spinning in the barrel may best orient the fill relative to the flight path.
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Unfortunately all of you have played the one "speedball" game of paintball for so long you can't conceive of other ways to do this and hence any new ideas seem stupid.
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Old 03-04-2014, 03:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by uv_halo View Post
For those shooting magfed, how long does it take the fill to reposition itself? a minute? a half hour? and hour? If the rounds come out of the centrifuge perfectly balanced, who's to say that by the time they end up in the breach for firing, that fill hasn't already settled to another orientation.
Unless someone created a magazine that stored rounds point down, that would be pretty neat, doncha think, hey? ;D

But for reference I would also like to know what the natural flow rate of first strike fill is... Don't have any on hand to test.
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Old 03-04-2014, 04:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uv_halo View Post
This is awesome (in a good way) and hilarious!

I agree that if one were to store FS rounds vertically, and then shoot them immediately, there could be a noticible difference in performance.

However, I have some reservations about doing something like this.

1- The fill may separate more than it already does. Separation may decrease the marking ability of the fill. In other words, if the fill is a solid (powder) in suspension, and the powder is heavier than the liquid, a centrifuge may pull the powder out of suspension, and then it may not stick as well to your target.

2- For those shooting magfed, how long does it take the fill to reposition itself? a minute? a half hour? and hour? If the rounds come out of the centrifuge perfectly balanced, who's to say that by the time they end up in the breach for firing, that fill hasn't already settled to another orientation.

I believe that this may be a benefit of a rifled barrel, there might not be enough of it but, the spinning in the barrel may best orient the fill relative to the flight path.
This should be easy enough to test. Fire a group fresh from a box, fire a group freshly centrifuged, load a magazine and fire a group every hour or so. Record the results, and discuss them here. Or if WhiskyHammer is still running his tests...


Scott, that centrifuge is pretty legit. I think I may have figured out my jamming issue, so next time I'm at predator I may have to borrow some machine time
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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It doesn't have a high enough rpm to separate the liquid/powder. It just doesn't generate the G's needed to do that.

The fills viscosity is going to be what the factor here is in terms of it re-settling. If its really hot out and the rounds get warm I can see the liquid re-settling a bit more than before because of the lowered viscosity. But I would imagine it has to be really hot. (Which is a real issue here in Texas so it's not something to disregard.)

It makes no difference in marking ability so far as I've seen. The only thing I could see is if I did the opposite and put the paint down toward the fin side, this could make the void spot at the tip of the round and maybe increase likelihood of breaking the shell. Something worth investigating I think. Also I haven't tested the paint toward the fin side so this might be worth investigating too. Consistency/accuracy/stability and break on target.

I've already done the testing multiple times and you'll see it yourself if you do it. Nose down vs randomly settled paint takes the shot grouping from missing the 3'x3' target at 50 yards sometimes to 6" grouping at 50 yards. Just much more consistent.

I can't recall where but the guys who used the SAR12 to win the Top PB Sniper challenged mentioned that they used paint that had been nose down for a while. There are also other guys who have mentioned that they stopped using their fresh FS because they just weren't getting the distance/accuracy as they have with nose down paint.

But yea, it's certainly easy enough to test out. Take a box off the shelf, load them up and shoot them at something 50-75 yards out. Then do that with a freshly spun down or nose settled for a month group. Should see a better consistency and shot/shot replication at distance.

Kyle: lol I'll bring it out. It's simple enough and only takes a few minutes to spin down a box. Glad to hear the gun is working a bit better.

I'm using the old old HH barrels with the tip that can't be screwed off. I don't know what they were calling them.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Ah, cool. That's enough info for me.

One more note- I think nose-down is the preferred method for settling paint because it settles into the pointed centre, and it makes the round tip-heavy more than anything. If you centrifuge it the reverse way, the weight will distribute around the middle and will lose stability (also the seam between the two shells is at that hemisphere, so they're prone to leak there.) That being said, I don't know if anyone has purposefully tried the reverse, so I'd be curious to see the theory put to test.
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Old 03-04-2014, 07:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Great idea,1st noticed this myself when the rounds were settling on their side instead of weeble wobbling on the tip like normal
Does anyone know if the fill contains Bismuth like the FN rounds?Or are they just pigment heavy compared to normal balls?The fill is unusually thick and hard to wipe off
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Old 03-04-2014, 11:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by punisher068 View Post
Great idea,1st noticed this myself when the rounds were settling on their side instead of weeble wobbling on the tip like normal
Does anyone know if the fill contains Bismuth like the FN rounds?Or are they just pigment heavy compared to normal balls?The fill is unusually thick and hard to wipe off
FN303 rounds have two chambers. The forward chamber is filled with bismuth grains/powder. The rear chamber (which is surrounded by the skirt) contains the payload (marking dye, capsaicin powder, water, etc). The reason for the bismuth up front was to move the center of gravity forward, away from the center or pressure (the tail/fin section).

FS Rounds do not require bismuth powder (and I'm fairly confident, that based on their weight they do not include it) because they only have the forward chamber. This alone is enough to keep the center of gravity forward of the skirt.

Thickness of fill does not correlate to weight, especially since all paint must weigh under the ASTM limit. The thing about fill as compared to regular paint is that FS rounds can use water-based fills while regular paint cannot due to the gelatin shell so, they may be using ingredients that perform better (in terms of wipability) that are incompatible with normal balls.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kaye -in response to FS price critics
Unfortunately all of you have played the one "speedball" game of paintball for so long you can't conceive of other ways to do this and hence any new ideas seem stupid.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:08 AM   #10 (permalink)
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In some testing I did, I found that the FS fill weighs twice as much as the fill in the Nelson Anarchy I was checking. The shells of both FS's and PB's were the same weight. I had to fill the emptied FS shell completely flush with the end of the fin for it to weigh the same as a normal FS.

My other thought with the orientation of the rounds is what happens after firing them. If they are stored nose up, the paint will already be against the boarder of the shell when fired instead of flinging from the nose to the back. I have not taken time yet though to test between nose up and nose down though.
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