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Old 07-10-2013, 07:16 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Stop crashing old cars! Footage like that makes me sad.
This!
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:32 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Murf425 View Post
Just out of curiosity, when did drum brakes fade away? The '91 Ranger I had in high school still had 'em in the back.
My Wife's 2000 Olds Shilouette has drums in the back. They may still use them today. I think they are talking 4 wheel drums.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:14 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Finnigan View Post
My Wife's 2000 Olds Shilouette has drums in the back. They may still use them today. I think they are talking 4 wheel drums.
My 07 civic still has them on the rear brakes. They're not all gone yet.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:22 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Another thing to point out - cars get worse fuel mileage than a comparable vehicle from 15 years because they weigh more.

That vintage Mustang weighs about 2600 lbs... I have a feeling that Bored383's Sonata weighs a good 500-700 lbs more. There's quite a bit of metal in today's cars.
I wouldn't say there is more metal but there is definetly more stuff. All the extra wiring and computers and electronics add up to a lot of weight. They are mainly using the metal in smarter ways, not so much using more of it. Some of those older cars and even trucks did get great mileage for what they were. I know those old ranger diesels got 45-46mpg+ (80's ones, not the old full sized) and many carbureted old small 4cyl's got 30mpg or more. New motors I would say are definetly more efficient but in most cases the mpg gain is marginal atbest.

I know my Burb isn't that old at only 93 but everyone asks me "what kind of mileage do you get with that, like 10mpg at best" when I tell them 15-17 mpg no matter what they almost dont believe me. The same truck in a 2013 only gets about 2more mpg. Anyone want to buy a nice 93 Burb cheap haha? I AM selling it.

My old 85 C20 gets about 12mpg, but it was never designed with fuel economy in mind. My friend drives a new 2500HD gas truck and he says he gets like 15mpg with it, and that's comparing an old carbed 350 with a 3 speed manual (low doesn't count really) to a modern 6.0l fuel injected, much better engine, with I think a 5 or 6 speed auto. A gain of 3mpg is pretty sad IMO there, he spent about $30000 more on his truck compared to mine, that's a lot of gas for me.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:36 AM   #25 (permalink)
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This has been discussed at great length on Reddit and elsewhere. I can't find links to the threads, though. A few recurring themes are the following:

1. "Safety Cell" Design

Older cars were made without any concerns regarding where all the bits of the car actually go upon impact. The result as shown in the crash video is the steering column going through the head of the dummy and similar.

A core principle in newer car design is the creation of a survivable "cell" inside which the passengers are (relatively) more safe due to sophisticated modeling of crash impact and kinetic energy transfer. Honda calls it ACE, but all the makers do it now. The engine is designed to slide under the car, wheels move out/away/down...all this takes the brunt of the crash and moves it AROUND the passenger cabin, instead of INTO it.

2. Advanced Materials/Pedestrian Impact

Have you noticed that bumpers are now made of softer materials...even styrofoam? To people who don't know better, this seems cheap. You hear them say "They don't make 'em like they used to!"...to which you should respond "Yes! They make 'em better!".

The emphasis now is on pedestrian impact, as well as vehicle impact. One Redditor recounted being pinched in between two cars at a concert when his GF accidentally threw the car into the wrong gear. The bumpers of the two cars actually gave way around his legs and then returned to their normal shape. He was left with just bruises. With an older car, instant loss of limbs.

Bottomline, newer cars--even cheaper ones--benefit from decades of advanced computer modeling to ensure maximum safety. Car years are like dog years in terms of safety advances. Newer cars use better materials (high strength steel in the frame, with softer materials outside) as opposed to old cars that used a lot of steel, but usually cheap steel that would give out at the thinnest point and or joints--many/most of which are right next to passengers.

Hope that's useful...
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:39 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Here...this video is a really good follow-up to the IIHS 50th anniversary video:

Fifth Gear - Renault Modus vs Volvo 940 crash test - YouTube
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:50 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
Another thing to point out - cars get worse fuel mileage than a comparable vehicle from 15 years because they weigh more.

That vintage Mustang weighs about 2600 lbs... I have a feeling that Bored383's Sonata weighs a good 500-700 lbs more. There's quite a bit of metal in today's cars.
yeah, curb weight on the Sonata is ~3200lbs . . . which is currently on the light side for it's class of cars nowadays. The sonata is also markedly larger than an early mustang.

a lot of the change in vehicles is in the engineering, and in all aspects of the vehicle we are reaping the benefits of decades of cumulative effort. Having owned cars from each of the past 5 decades (and one from the current one) the steady progression of improvement is pretty amazing. And as much as I loved some of my classic iron I really appreciate how much better designed and made modern cars are.

as for drum brakes in the back - they'll be around in that capacity for some time to come. Rear brakes account for only a fraction of the stopping power of a vehicle - it is the front brakes that do all the heavy work because of weight transfer. drum brakes are fine out back, with the only downside being that when you do have to service them they are not as easy as discs to work on (IMO) . . . but then rear brakes can and often do last the life of a vehicle
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:03 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Murf425 View Post
Just out of curiosity, when did drum brakes fade away? The '91 Ranger I had in high school still had 'em in the back.
Some cars that have 4 wheel disc brakes even still have additional mini drums in the back solely for th parking brake. It can be simpler and cheaper for manufacturers to add these mini drums then it s for them to design a way fo the discs to operate with a parking brake.
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Last edited by PBRevolution; 07-10-2013 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:34 AM   #29 (permalink)
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The new GM trucks have gone BACK to rear drum in order to get a better brake pedal feel.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:04 PM   #30 (permalink)
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....even styrofoam? To people who don't know better, this seems cheap. ...
The perception of quality/cheap materials over time is pretty interesting. The Queen Mary(old cruise ship) has tacky, white plastic handrails through out its interior thats decorated with beautiful woods and metalwork. Back then, plastic was considered a high-tech, expensive material and was chosen over metal handrails because it is warmer to the touch. Looking at it now, it looks out of place and something that was added cheaply.
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