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Old 11-07-2013, 12:02 PM   #2361 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by FreeEnterprise View Post
I like that they split up Carol, as it will be interesting to follow her storyline apart from the prison...
I've heard something about a spin-off in 2015. Maybe this was there way of starting with an established character. Maybe Carol decides to go west or something. A single person should be able to travel more readily than a group.
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:06 PM   #2362 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Jerry View Post
I don't usually watch talking dead afterwards either...but they often do not have people associated with the movie as guest...last week was Chris Jericho and Gillian Jacobs on. And like many shows there is an attempt to put depth into characters that stretches beyond one episode. Sometimes it is successful, othertimes it is not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ10p51NHUI

Not an aggressive act to start lowering the weapon. Keep in mind...Carl did not tell him to lower his weapon...Carl said nothing. Carl was trying to no longer be a kid. Men kill men and men defend their families at all cost. This was a stranger...one that was armed. Carl did not attempt to negotiate with him, but instead perceived a threat and did not even give him a chance to truly be a threat. And shot him.

Does anybody remember how things turned out for Shane when Rick surrendered his gun and walked over to Shane to give it to him?

Best video I cound find, its crappy but shows what I'm saying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjiJH6400UQ
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DashHopes has a nelspot that has internals that were polished by Chuck Norris, using only his beard to polish them.
That nelspot never needs lube, shoots 2,000 ball per second, never needs reloaded, doesn't require an air source and when the paintball hits somebody the result is the same as if Chuck Norris round house kicked them.
He nick named the gun Reggie.
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:09 PM   #2363 (permalink)
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Mom Zombie could have been still inside the house because maybe the doors were closed? Not all Walkers seem to be capable of tasks like opening doors. Of course if she was staying where she was supposed to she should have been in the kitchen ready to make a sandwich.

Personally, Im waiting for them to come across "stripper pole Walkers.'
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:47 PM   #2364 (permalink)
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I don't think they were all infected either, but I was just wondering if the writers have gone to the depth of creating an explination for their being there in the story (wether we ever know or not, or even if it matters later in the show or not) or did they just stick them in to up the stakes on the escape.
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:54 PM   #2365 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OPBN View Post
Where are all of the animals? Shouldn't they be knee deep in cats and wild dogs by now?
Walkers eat them like they ate Rick's horse.

Yes, they are hard to catch but walkers don't sleep.
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:00 PM   #2366 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by heinous View Post
are you kidding me, he was even walking towards carl, approaching the distance for disarming, in the very clip you posted and you still don't think he was a threat.
never said he was not a threat. Being aggressive and being a threat are two entirely different things. Keep in mind Hershel also had a gun trained on him as well.

Carl took him out on a perceived threat, but we were never given an opportunity to see if the kid was an actual threat or perhaps just a scared kid that really did not know what the heck he was doing.

So what makes more sense...

the kid was a highly trained gun fighter that truly thought he could take out two people that had guns already drawn on him at point blank range...he was going to utilize his years of training under Chuck Norris to disarm Carl and shoot Herschel (and any other unknowns behind the rock) and come out alive....

or...

He was a scared kid that was running away from a fight only to stumble upon two individuals with guns trained on him. Fear made him completely stupid and instead of just dropping his gun he tried to hand it over.

What the root of the whole scene was as I had mentioned before..Carl disconnecting himself and trying to be a man. Men kill in order to survive. This kid, threat or not, was a perceived threat by Carl and Carl wanted so hard to be a man he shot him...he made the "adult" decision and shot him.

that is what he emphasized with his dad later in pointing out the incident with Shane, and what we see at the start of this season...in that Carl does not want to play with the kids because that is childish.

But yet he really does miss that connection because he was going to sneak back into story time with Carol and was mad only to find out she was not telling stories but teaching kids how to kill.

Hmmmm.
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:05 PM   #2367 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Jerry View Post
never said he was not a threat. Being aggressive and being a threat are two entirely different things. Keep in mind Hershel also had a gun trained on him as well.

Carl took him out on a perceived threat, but we were never given an opportunity to see if the kid was an actual threat or perhaps just a scared kid that really did not know what the heck he was doing.

So what makes more sense...

the kid was a highly trained gun fighter that truly thought he could take out two people that had guns already drawn on him at point blank range...he was going to utilize his years of training under Chuck Norris to disarm Carl and shoot Herschel (and any other unknowns behind the rock) and come out alive....

or...

He was a scared kid that was running away from a fight only to stumble upon two individuals with guns trained on him. Fear made him completely stupid and instead of just dropping his gun he tried to hand it over.
again, how was carl supposed to know this? you are thinking in the frame of a viewer, which is not fair to judge carl's actions.

carl sees someone twice his age, twice his size, from a group with the express purpose to wipe out the prison, disobeying a direct order from someone 10 times his age and simultaneously approaching closer. at what point should carl pull the trigger? never?

edit: in fact, actively attacking the prison to kill everybody seems plenty aggressive enough to me. none of the prison guys would know at that point that they were coaxed into attacking by the governor, so i don't know why hershel would hold that kid at gunpoint in the first place when there was no way to know if he was running on his way to attack around back with how many of his cronies behind him. ever played woodsball? you'd be surprised how good bushes are at hiding footsteps.

Last edited by heinous; 11-07-2013 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:32 PM   #2368 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Jerry View Post
the kid was a highly trained gun fighter that truly thought he could take out two people that had guns already drawn on him at point blank range...he was going to utilize his years of training under Chuck Norris to disarm Carl and shoot Herschel (and any other unknowns behind the rock) and come out alive....

or...

He was a scared kid that was running away from a fight only to stumble upon two individuals with guns trained on him. Fear made him completely stupid and instead of just dropping his gun he tried to hand it over.
I think you are creating a card stacking argument. The kid was participating in an active and ongoing assault on the prison. There is no reason Carl should know that the Governor drafted everyone without concern if they were competent or not. Carl has no reason to assume that kid is any different than he is and Carl sees himself as competent in combat.

More to the point lets consider the risk analysis. If Carl shoots and option 2 that you present is true then there is zero threat to the group that Carl is trying to defend (nor was there a risk). If Carl shoots and option 1 is correct than there is zero risk to the group.

If Carl does not shoot and option 1 is correct than he has endangered everyone in the group.

IF Carl had time to do considered risk analysis and places his group above others (which is what has been done by his father in the past) then this armed person presents some level of threat. Pulling the trigger presents nearly zero risk to his group. We can discuss the fall of humanity and what the shot represents.

There is no reasonable argument, IMO, that allows an argument that someone participating in an armed attack against you is zero threat.
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"Do not overcome by the evil, but overcome, in the good, the evil" - Romans 12:21 - Young's Literal Translation

"Use peaceful means where they are appropriate; but where they are not appropriate, do not hesitate to resort to more forceful - Thupten Gyatso (the Dalai Lama, 1932)

"It is not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters" Coach Paul 'Bear' Bryant.

"The ink of scholars is more precious than the blood of martyrs" - Muhammed
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:32 PM   #2369 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BoBo View Post
Walkers eat them like they ate Rick's horse.

Yes, they are hard to catch but walkers don't sleep.
Maybe the sick and injured, but there is no freaking way a walker is going to catch a healthy cat or dog. Especially feral ones that are scared of humans to begin with. Old bat next door used to feed a couple of feral cats that eventually turned into like 10 of them within a few months. Hard enough to catch in baited possum traps let alone by a shuffling walker. 1.5 years later the place should be crawling with critters. That would add a new twist... feral dog packs.
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:46 PM   #2370 (permalink)
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No more than you are...how was Carl to know the kid was not giving up his gun?

You have to look at the overall development of Carl not just the one episode.

Carl saw the kid as a threat...him having a gun was irrelevant. The fact that the kid lived was threat enough for Carl. If the kid dropped his gun Carl more than likely would have shot him anyways because his existence is what was threatening to Carl. Remember Carl did not like the idea of bringing the old folks and such from Woodbury to the prison, they were a threat to him and his group of survivors. Carl saw Michonne as a threat and did not like her being brought into the group either. Carl said earlier that season that his father should not be the leader anymore. Because Carl saw himself as a decision maker, a leader, one who is to protect the group at all costs, even his own life which he thought he was man enough to clear out the prison remember?

Carl was trying to make the decisions he was not seeing his father make. The kids existence was a threat, Carl removed that threat.
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