mcarterbrown.com  

General Chat MCB's Coffee House: Pull up a seat, and grab your favorite caffeinated beverage. Non-paintball related chat within.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-15-2012, 01:07 PM   #21 (permalink)
Needs new knees
 
Shane-O's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: St. Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadawg View Post
Shane-o I have no dog in this fight, purely an intellectual exercise. I can assure you I do not have to do anything besides pay taxes and die. Sponsorship does not require my handing over the keys to my brain and keyboard and you most certainly do not know me well enough to suggest otherwise.
While you may not think I know you, I have read many of your posts about similar threads about your sponsors, and have seen you defend them when given facts to the contrary. If I am wrong then, I apologize. But your statement I highlighted was not spoken as an opinion, when it starts out " The Reality is" does not seem to be an opinion to me, but maybe I am wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadawg View Post
I believe we were asked for our thoughts on this and I believe I expressed them in a forthright manner. If you take umbrage with my statement might I suggest you do your part and either spend some money to reverse their dire financial situation, put me on your ignore list, or click the x at the upper right or left sides of your screen as I can assure you I shall continue to post in accordance with the rules of this site, which I am pretty sure my last as well as current posts fall well within
Like I said above, opinions are fine, but I recall having read alot of your posts that read as fact, and unfounded "Facts" as it were. If I am totally off base then again, I apologize. The fact is though, your crying foul for a person who has done worse to others in this industry (and will do the same if given the chance), and that just seems kinda wrong, to me.
Shane-O is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 01:25 PM   #22 (permalink)
Idiot Fanboy.
 
shadawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: S. NJ

CCM Fan
Brass N Wood Fan
Shane-o I'm not in the habit of posting b.s. If I have information contrary to popular public opinion or sticks in your particular craw I'm sorry, but I comment on things I know or have been related to me or have first hand knowledge of. It is what it is. Do I perk up when something relates to companies I do business with, sure I do, as it is relevant to my interest and I do not think I am unique in that regard. Have I stood in front of the troll bus of spurious fact when a bunch of people on here where high fiving and rubbing their horns together spouting nonsense they read and were reposting from other forums? Absolutely. Does that piss people off? Sure it does. I am a dealer for Valken, GOG, CCM, CCI and a whole host of other companies and products. I count the owners of a few major fields and a producers amongst my personal friends as well as a whole host of industry players and owners. I have done business with most of the major companies in the sport today and am privy to lots of different things. Sometimes, I know more, sometimes I get given bad info, or developing info that changes. I relay what I can when I can and try to correct things I know to be incorrect. I am only human and that is the one caveat you and the others here are just going to have to live with and only because I have to live with it too. If I ever become a god you all will be the first to know.
__________________


"The future is already here - it's just not very evenly distributed."
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_chemist View Post
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull****" is my motto

Last edited by shadawg; 02-15-2012 at 01:30 PM.
shadawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 01:48 PM   #23 (permalink)
Slowly making progress
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Vail, AZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadawg View Post
Horizon it is my understanding that the marketplace was open to anybody who wanted to pay the sponsorship fee. The marketplace became closed when a serious competitor was preparing to come on board as a sponsor at the insistence of the other two players. Again for me this is just questioning the sense of fair play in the marketplace with regard to consumer choice.
The appearance is that the 3 parties(PSP. KEE, DXS/Procaps) colluded to eliminate competition by blocking out the 3rd vendor and then fixing prices amongst the remaining two vendors to the detriment of the players.

take a look at this and see if you draw any parallels to the topic of discussion.
Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Competition - Resource Guide to Business Competition
I would see this as a detriment to the league. The league has a signed deal with whoever the paint providers are now. If it's not a fixed price agreement then the price may rise and/or fall as needed. If PSP didn't have something in writing limiting how high paint prices go, that is on PSP. If PSP is a part of that pricing decision, I don't really see an issue with that either, but they (PSP) might come to find that their customers will either move to a different format that is more affordable, or just stay home.

Is staying home hurting the players? Who knows as situations will vary from player to player. I don't see the need to cry foul (not a personal attack, just a phrase) when the PSP wants to shoot themselves in the foot.

I have 2 fields within range. Both are fun in different ways and both are FPO with near identical prices. I go to the close one out of convenience, but if they jacked up prices I would probably play more renegade than I already do. I would say that this is the equivalent of a tourney player staying home.
__________________

>>> Link to prototype Dust Devil<<<

DT1 Dust Devil want list. Click me!
Quote:
Originally Posted by neftaly View Post
New advertising tagline: "Simon Stevens said that will be totally fine and nothing bad could ever happen. Ever."
Feedback
desertT1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 02:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
Needs new knees
 
Shane-O's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: St. Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadawg View Post
Shane-o I'm not in the habit of posting b.s. If I have information contrary to popular public opinion or sticks in your particular craw I'm sorry, but I comment on things I know or have been related to me or have first hand knowledge of. It is what it is. Do I perk up when something relates to companies I do business with, sure I do, as it is relevant to my interest and I do not think I am unique in that regard. Have I stood in front of the troll bus of spurious fact when a bunch of people on here where high fiving and rubbing their horns together spouting nonsense they read and were reposting from other forums? Absolutely. Does that piss people off? Sure it does. I am a dealer for Valken, GOG, CCM, CCI and a whole host of other companies and products. I count the owners of a few major fields and a producers amongst my personal friends as well as a whole host of industry players and owners. I have done business with most of the major companies in the sport today and am privy to lots of different things. Sometimes, I know more, sometimes I get given bad info, or developing info that changes. I relay what I can when I can and try to correct things I know to be incorrect. I am only human and that is the one caveat you and the others here are just going to have to live with and only because I have to live with it too. If I ever become a god you all will be the first to know.
LOL we are talking about similar things here. You speak up when the "Facts" are not what you know them to be, and I usually do the same. So when you post a "Fact" like you did I called BS. Sorry it came off as very personal, it was meant to be more like "Come on dude seriously?" not a personal attack. For that I do apologize. But it is a discussion and people will disagree, so heres my take. Do you have proof other than forum postings about how PSP is in collusion with Kee and Procaps to keep Valken out of their league at all costs? This is what your post said to me, correct me if I am wrong on that.

OR in other words

Back up your assertion!

Shane-O is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 03:05 PM   #25 (permalink)
Stange, but not a stanger
 
tarakian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007

Fan of EMR
Palmers Fan
Sorry I spelled your name wrong. There is no legal difference between EMR and PSP. They both are paintball businesses that run a recognized series of events. They have a right to choose who they do business with and to charge whatever they feel the market will bear. Nobody has to attend PSP events or EMR events. Every player has to make up their own mind on whether they feel the structure/cost of the event has value to them. Any team that does not want to play in PSP events because they can't use Valken paint, or because they feel the paint costs are too high, is certainly entitled to not attend. It doesn't matter why PSP chooses not to do business with Valken, heck, maybe Youngblood thinks Gino is ugly and his momma dresses him funny; still PSP's choice and no amount of Sherman sabre rattling changes that.
__________________
No one has the right not to be offended.

Feedback
tarakian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 03:08 PM   #26 (permalink)
Canuck MCB Member
 
ThisIsPaintball.ca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canada
Send a message via Skype™ to ThisIsPaintball.ca

So just to put some more irons into the fire.

Found these comments on Facebook after Dre Wolf (Commander at LL4) posted about the drama from his personal account.

Greg Hastings WHO CARES!!! NOT ON MY RADAR AT ALL!!!

A few posts later...

Gino Postorivo Thank for your support MR. Hastings!

It seems like the things that might have went unsaid face to face between paintball industry folks seems to be showing up on social media so I think everyone just needs to take a lesson in Online Bulling and maybe also a quick refresher that when things are said even in social media they have some weight and impact not to mention that they may not reflect to well on the companies that people represent.

This thread wasn't started to get MCB members to fight between each other. Just a peaceful discussion about the current state of the industry. This part of the industry happens to be tournament paintball so we must also have some understanding that if your not playing in tournament paintball then it might be best to voice your opinion but to also understand that since it doesn't directly impact yourself then it is just that an opinion.

@shadawg while I totally believe that you have the right to voice opinions this has turned into a back & forth between you and @Shane-O. I'm not one to try to mute anyone's voice in this debate/discussion but lets not turn this into a pissing match between people who are both good parts of the MCB community.

I would consider this as one of the main reasons why this has bubbled into a huge online drama. “Follow the money.” The fact that the paintball industry is currently in a very hard place now and it is obvious that any perceived lost income from a manufacturer or a league is what is driving this combined with a bit of history of business which may or maybe be totally public domain. WHile players opinions maybe be their personal ones I still would use the lens/filter of “Follow the money” to see why people are forming the opinions and views that they have.

Paintball has been political since someone waved a carrot in front of a players telling them that this brand tastes sweeter than the other a long time ago to now have what I would consider as nothing else than an online campaign to smear a brand into submission is nothing but childish.

Okay enough of my Canuck peacekeeping role for now so back to everyone yelling and fighting and saying this stick is bigger than your stick so you better give me what I want...

Last edited by ThisIsPaintball.ca; 02-15-2012 at 03:39 PM.
ThisIsPaintball.ca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 03:09 PM   #27 (permalink)
MCBs armed pacifist
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: West Michigan

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarakian View Post
Sorry I spelled your name wrong. There is no legal difference between EMR and PSP. They both are paintball businesses that run a recognized series of events. They have a right to choose who they do business with and to charge whatever they feel the market will bear. Nobody has to attend PSP events or EMR events. Every player has to make up their own mind on whether they feel the structure/cost of the event has value to them. Any team that does not want to play in PSP events because they can't use Valken paint, or because they feel the paint costs are too high, is certainly entitled to not attend. It doesn't matter why PSP chooses not to do business with Valken, heck, maybe Youngblood thinks Gino is ugly and his momma dresses him funny; still PSP's choice and no amount of Sherman sabre rattling changes that.
This is not accurate. As PSP is not acutally buying and selling hte product a valid argument can be made that they are engaging in horizontal price fixing between competitors in violation of the Sherman anti-trust laws. Your analogy is flawed.
__________________
"Do not overcome by the evil, but overcome, in the good, the evil" - Romans 12:21 - Young's Literal Translation

"Use peaceful means where they are appropriate; but where they are not appropriate, do not hesitate to resort to more forceful - Thupten Gyatso (the Dalai Lama, 1932)

"It is not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters" Coach Paul 'Bear' Bryant.

"The ink of scholars is more precious than the blood of martyrs" - Muhammed
Lohman446 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 03:20 PM   #28 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2006

i just bought my first box of valken last week and they were dimpled. shot alright, but those kids are idiots if they think it's a necessity.
heinous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 03:23 PM   #29 (permalink)
Secret SWAT Team
 
ChaplainBane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Title Town USA
Send a message via AIM to ChaplainBane Send a message via MSN to ChaplainBane Send a message via Yahoo to ChaplainBane

Fan of EMR
CCM Fan
Kilt Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane-O View Post
LOL we are talking about similar things here. You speak up when the "Facts" are not what you know them to be, and I usually do the same. So when you post a "Fact" like you did I called BS. Sorry it came off as very personal, it was meant to be more like "Come on dude seriously?" not a personal attack. For that I do apologize. But it is a discussion and people will disagree, so heres my take. Do you have proof other than forum postings about how PSP is in collusion with Kee and Procaps to keep Valken out of their league at all costs? This is what your post said to me, correct me if I am wrong on that.

OR in other words

Back up your assertion!

Having read that statement by Mr. Lane to ProPaintball.com, there are some statements that don't add up. Like the statement that there are 3 paint vendors, when in reality there are only 2. DXS/Procaps, a listed paint vendor was purchased by GI, another paint vendor back in December. That to me sounds like spin doctoring. Also, PSP has not blocked Valken from vending at PSP events, only from supplying paint, also, I have it on good authority, that the same tack was attempted, to block valken from providing paint at NPPL, but the move failed.
__________________
-Bane Harlock
Assistant Captain Steeel Reserve
Sposored by Valken Sports and PnL Paintball
__________________________________________________
My wife came out of the closet as a furry to me, so I Divorced her, what would you do?

"I have alot of filthy habits. Most of which I find enjoyable" -Willie Nelson as Doc Holliday
__________________________________________________
Blazer #003
Typhoon #579
ChaplainBane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 08:05 PM   #30 (permalink)
Idiot Fanboy.
 
shadawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: S. NJ

CCM Fan
Brass N Wood Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane-O View Post
LOL we are talking about similar things here. You speak up when the "Facts" are not what you know them to be, and I usually do the same. So when you post a "Fact" like you did I called BS. Sorry it came off as very personal, it was meant to be more like "Come on dude seriously?" not a personal attack. For that I do apologize. But it is a discussion and people will disagree, so heres my take. Do you have proof other than forum postings about how PSP is in collusion with Kee and Procaps to keep Valken out of their league at all costs? This is what your post said to me, correct me if I am wrong on that.

OR in other words

Back up your assertion!

I have Lanes disingenuous response on Propaintball, as well as the fact that Valken's paint sponsorship being refused, something that has never happened in 20 years of Tournament paintball. You have to understand that these actions are so off the wall, which is why their has been much hand wringing and teeth gnashing. These actions are pretty much in response to the amount of play Valken is getting in the field with retail accounts and field operators. They are doing big business and signing a lot of operations up. This move is an attempt to block them out of the sales environment at PSP by making it so that Field Operators who bring their teams to the events are forced to deal with KEE/ DXS on terms in order to get favorable paint service at National Events in contravention of sales agreements they may have with Valken. This is a big picture tactic and you need to be pulled back from the leagues action to see the full impact of it on the marketplace.

Lohman thank you for explaining to Tarakian the concept and how they are different, I thought I did a pretty good job the first go round but obviously I was mistaken.
__________________


"The future is already here - it's just not very evenly distributed."
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_chemist View Post
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull****" is my motto
shadawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  mcarterbrown.com » General » General Chat

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
© MCB Network LLC