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Old 06-19-2012, 05:47 PM   #21 (permalink)
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This is a great read as I'm sure I'll be having children in the very near future. Thank you all for your points of view I'm going to be showing this to my fiance.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:58 PM   #22 (permalink)
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But that is not the fault of the testing.

Put that same standardized test in front of a selected sample of students such as the author talks about. They have this supposedly much better education that is not geared to the test. Care to wonder who will do better?
I may be missing something here, but the issue is not how any of the kids do on the standardized test. The issue is that those that are educated towards taking the test are doing poorly later in their education. The problem is school funding is partly based on the test, so the schools teach the test. Things not on the test fall by the wayside. The schools want to score as high as possible on the test to keep up their ratings.

If I remember correctly not long ago a bunch of teachers and faculty in a school were busted for holding a weekend pizza party during which they were fixing the tests their kids took.
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Old 06-19-2012, 06:46 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I may be missing something here, but the issue is not how any of the kids do on the standardized test. The issue is that those that are educated towards taking the test are doing poorly later in their education. The problem is school funding is partly based on the test, so the schools teach the test. Things not on the test fall by the wayside. The schools want to score as high as possible on the test to keep up their ratings.

If I remember correctly not long ago a bunch of teachers and faculty in a school were busted for holding a weekend pizza party during which they were fixing the tests their kids took.
Out of curiousity how would you evaluate education without some type of testing? Understand its much to big to allow me to do scientific interviews with each child to make an estimate.

That they are teaching to the tests indicates an inability of teachers to educate, I will agree with that. However how are we going to evaluate it?

Personally if I were in school today I would have a field day. All these teachers complaining about how testing does not work and then giving tests (besides the standardized ones) confuses me.

Teaching to the test and blatant academic dishonesty are two seperate things. I would prefer not to muddy the waters with examples of academic dishonesty as reasons why the tests are not working.
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Old 06-19-2012, 06:57 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Wait, I've seen comments on the tests and school funding in the states before, but schools that are full of students who do poorly on tests get less funding? Not, you know, extra funding/staffing/investigation to help correct the issue?
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:03 PM   #25 (permalink)
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My daughter goes to a private school, which we pay for..
Don't feel bad. I have -5- kids I'm putting through private school. Its a conversation that me and the wife have had, at length. The local public school is a mess, regarded as one of the worst in the state.

So it is an investment in there future for them to go to a better school. But its not cheap. Would it be better to send them to public, but devote that money to extra activities? or simply save it for a premier college? or charter schools? (ie specialized high schools).

or home schooling? We have worked it out before. The money we would save would offset the money lost without my wife working.

But obviously I'm sidestepping the big issue- Whats wrong with the public school system? Unions? Politics? Testing? Money? I'm sure its a mix of everything.
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:13 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I have to disagree in this case. When you have a whole state (K-12) geared up to teach kids to pass a test in which scores are directly tied to the schools funding you end up with kids who are receiving inadequate curriculum and with such, their education suffers. They are being taught to pass the test and missing out on critical pieces of education.
this. having been schooled in 2 countries i can say i like american public school system more. the kids here might test lower, but i believe it has more to do with motivation than the system. over here, overachievers are frowned upon in various ways from being seen as nerds to every other negative name under the sun. on top of that the emphasis on atheletic performance overshadow the focus on good grades. under all these circumstances, what reasons do kids have to want to try hard at school when they're not nearly old enough to understand the importance of education no matter how you explain it?
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:21 PM   #27 (permalink)
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on top of that the emphasis on atheletic performance overshadow the focus on good grades.
Well being good at darts can net you $1 million a year.
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:34 PM   #28 (permalink)
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The problem with standardized testing is that it's got that built-in catch - students need to score well for the schools to get funding so the teachers are pressured to spend more time preparing them instead of teaching the regular curriculum. Yet it gets played off by the politicians as the students doing well with the regular curriculum.

All that means is that it brings everyone (ideally) to the same level of education, so it brings down the schools that do have brighter kids and it tries to bring up the schools with the less intelligent kids.

It's not really a great solution, in my opinion. I know a lot of teachers up here and they all went to school before the standardized testing was implemented. When they compare what they teach now to what was taught them, there's a big difference.

Another issue (that's already been mentioned previously) is that the blame can't always be put squarely on the school and teachers. If kids aren't doing the work, they're not gonna do well. If they don't have good role models at home, they're gonna be pricks at school.

There's no singular way to fix things - it's a combination of the decline of western civilization, apathetic parents, kids more interested in Facebook and their iPhones than reading and an education system that has had so many cuts and been so demoralized, you get teachers who just don't care.

Yes, that last bit is me painting with a wide brush, but in the large population centers, that's usually how it goes.
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:58 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I may be missing something here, but the issue is not how any of the kids do on the standardized test. The issue is that those that are educated towards taking the test are doing poorly later in their education. The problem is school funding is partly based on the test, so the schools teach the test. Things not on the test fall by the wayside. The schools want to score as high as possible on the test to keep up their ratings.

If I remember correctly not long ago a bunch of teachers and faculty in a school were busted for holding a weekend pizza party during which they were fixing the tests their kids took.
Exactly. The schools are now teaching to the test instead of the courses the kids need to know later on when they're going after that "elite" higher education. Then they fail to get accepted b/c they don't have the basic fundamentals that they should have. They're behind because of the system they were "educated" in.

Like I said, it's not true for everywhere but 8've seen the downward trends firsthand for over the last decade in FL. I'm not saying the test is the problem Lohman, I'm saying the system of teaching in which to pass the test is the problem and that's directly tied to the fact that the schools "grade" and funding are tied to the test.
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:02 AM   #30 (permalink)
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But obviously I'm sidestepping the big issue- Whats wrong with the public school system? Unions? Politics? Testing? Money?
Yes.
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