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Old 09-27-2012, 07:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by No Mercy Ever View Post
With our laws, you have to know that it was stolen. His buddy called Apple, and it wasn't stolen. According to him, he called Apple, and it wasn't stolen. I even have checked with Apple, today even, and it isn't listed as stolen. So unless you know that it is stolen, which no one did until yesterday right around noon or so, they can't get you on this.

So, I just got back, a bit ago, from meeting with his local police department. He came up with $200, but I admit that I am a bit stubborn that I want all $500 at one time. I even offered him a chance to sign a contract that said that he would have six months to come up with the money, no additional fees or charges added to the original $500. I just want it all at once, not a little bit here, a little bit there. Funny thing, the cops keep calling him a victim, which until he gives me my $500 back, he isn't a victim. Period.

He would not sign the contract. The cop mentioned that we wait a few days, let the emotions cool. I was game, and I gave him a week. He is concerned that I will harass him. But I still have the ability to take him to small claims court. Which I may have to do.
Well that makes a little sense I guess. Kinda complicates things for you though. Hope you get all your funds back in a timely matter.
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:12 PM   #12 (permalink)
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if he's waffling now I'd say pay the $35 or whatever it is in your state to file and sue him. That'll get his attention real fast not to mention it'll get you your money faster as if it's court ordered he'll only have X amount of time to pay up in full or face contempt charges and possibly end up in jail for a little while.
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:26 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I don't think that it will work that way. I think that a judgement against him will only be a judgement against him, and there isn't anything more that the courts will do about it. But it does mean that I can contact collection agencies at that point in time.
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by No Mercy Ever View Post
I don't think that it will work that way. I think that a judgement against him will only be a judgement against him, and there isn't anything more that the courts will do about it. But it does mean that I can contact collection agencies at that point in time.
No not saying you can contact collections but a judgement is a legal obligation FORCING him to pay usually with stipulations on how long he has to actually follow through. If he does not it's considered contempt of court at least here IIRC.

The other option (I know it might only apply here in Canada check your state laws) would be get him charged with selling stolen property. I know up here in Canada you don't even have to know it was stolen to get pinched.
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I'm reading up on small claims now. Fun stuff, there is a site that I can pay $200 to, and they will take care of everything, up to showing up the day of the court proceedings, and when I win, the fees can be added to the original amount, so this would bump things up to $755 ($500 original, $55 for ZAGG Invisible Shield [Damn right I am going to add that in if we take it to court], and $200 for the filling fee).

As to the last part, you have to know that the item was stolen here. And to this date, Apple still does not list the item as stolen. So there is no way to know that it is stolen until the police contact you.

I admit that I am being stubborn about wanting the $500 in one sum payment. But he insisted on $500, and would not do payments...
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:56 PM   #16 (permalink)
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ethics wise the chain appears to be

he bought a stolen item from someone who may have done the same
you bought the item from him
whether or not apple declares it stolen the police being involved says it aint legit at the least
bottom line is - the $500 he accepted from you should damn straight be going right back to you - its up to him to recover what he paid to the other guy earlier in the chain - somewhere is the real criminal

that you are willing to give up the $55 shield was a gift to start with

at the end of the day there is right and wrong - it sounds like the other guy is a buyer and seller - I would be more forgiving if he was simply selling something he owned which is obviously not the case. But as a buyer/seller (used goods pass through) it is HIS risk when he passes the money from one transaction to the other - it is NOT your responsibility for him to have the $500 to give back

Personally I would have given him 2 weeks to pay me in full then take it to the next level for the full amount plus expenses plus the cost of my time - I would put that offer in writing in front of him ($500 in 2 weeks or $1000+ after fees and expenses in small claims) and asked him to either accept, counter, or deal with the result.

again a lot is contingent on the full details - but that is what I would opt with the details at hand.

good luck in your journey - I hope you get your funds back.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
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He was concerned that you'd harass him? He owes you $300, if you called him once a week, that's not harassment, it's wanting your hard earned money back!
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:41 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Stitch - You are fairly accurate with your timeline. Let me see if I can add to it, with specific details.

Saturday - Thief breaks into a home and steals at least one item from a home, that being an iPad.
Sunday - The Thief responds to a buyer/seller's CL ad to sell the iPad. A meeting between the thief and the buyer/seller is scheduled, and the buyer/seller has a proxy meet in his place. The proxy calls Apple, and the iPad is not yet determined to be stolen (Yet), so proxy pays thief $350 for the iPad. Proxy gives the iPad to the buyer/seller, who gets ready to list it on CL.

I have to speculate about this, as I am not totally sure about when this happened, but the Apple customer service folks call the owner of the iPad to ask about his recent call to Apple customer service. The owner has no knowledge about the call, so looks, can't find the iPad, and reports it stolen. This happens between Sunday night and Monday morning.

Monday - Both the owner and myself contact the buyer/seller about the iPad. The owner by email, me by text messages. At some point, the buyer/seller sends pictures of the iPad to the owner, which show the serial number, but before the owner can have the police get it, I purchase the iPad.
Tuesday - Nothing much happens as the police are doing their homework to figure out the buyer/seller, and the buyer/seller is ignoring my one text to him about my catching him in the lie.
Wednesday - Buyer/seller is contacted by the police, in turn let's them know that I now have possession of the iPad. The buyer/seller decides to go to a nearby police agency to talk with a detective, who actually reads him his Miranda Rights, and questions him. I am contacted by the same detective, who I arrange to meet up with, give him the iPad, and give him my statement.
Thursday - I met with the buyer/seller to to see about getting my money returned. The buyer/seller had $200, and no promise as to when he would give me the rest. I also came up with a simple contract, that gave him six months to replay me the $500, in one payment. I don't want to deal with a payment here, and a payment there thing, I just want all $500 at one time. He refused to sign the contract, but the officer that was present suggested that we wait a week, think things over, and see about meeting back up again .

Part of what really bugs me is that he lied repeatedly. He told me, in text message, that he had owned the iPad for three months, not 24 hours. When we were meeting in person, he claimed that he had received the iPad as a present, and finally decided to sell it. When I talked to him today, he told me that the police station that we were meeting at was at one location, and it turned out to be at a different location. I am okay with giving him a week, but I am still intent on getting one lump sum payment, not little payments here and there with no schedule.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by No Mercy Ever View Post
I don't think that it will work that way. I think that a judgement against him will only be a judgement against him, and there isn't anything more that the courts will do about it. But it does mean that I can contact collection agencies at that point in time.
Thats exactly how it could work if you do it right.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:11 AM   #20 (permalink)
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NoMercy, we've done business and I know you're a good guy. I'm sorry to hear you got screwed on this deal.

With that said, I'm up in the air on this one. I'm not convinced he is legally required to pay you back. I think it is as much the buyer's responsibility to determine if something is stolen, as it is the seller's. That's just the risk we take when we do business on Craigslist (and here, for that matter).
I would refund the money if I was him, I'm just not sure he has to. Does anyone have direct experience with this type of situation?
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