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Old 01-13-2013, 12:07 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by heinous View Post
yes, from not working to not working.

has someone looked into if that guy is actually just an investment scammer?
i tried to attach a pic. it didnt work, had to resort to photobucket
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:12 AM   #22 (permalink)
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that explains the ":" in your post

and no, when i saw it as a kid, it was already in vtol form.
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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that explains the ":" in your post

and no, when i saw it as a kid, it was already in vtol form.
That was a joke.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:12 PM   #24 (permalink)
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That was a joke.
a joke about the development of it, which in itself is a joke?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:56 AM   #25 (permalink)
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But... where will the tire shine go?
on the tread, duh
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:05 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Been at least 6-7 years since I first saw pictures of the tweel. Cool concept, I hope they get the bugs worked out.
Michelin has worked on the Tweel for at least 15 years, but it's never going to enter the market (at least not for general population use). They might have hoped that it could be introduced to the public a long time ago, but that time has passed, and the Tweel has too many things going against it to be a marketable product these days.

First and foremost, it is my understanding that it gives a fairly harsh ride. People want a good ride from their tires, and there's no way to make any form of rubber that will be a better cushion than air.

Second, the Tweel needs to have high profile "sidewalls", and smaller diameter wheels. High profile tires, and small wheels are waaaay out of fashion, and that's not going to reverse itself. Even the most economic cars these days come with 17"+ from factory as an option. Another problem with this is that a small wheel requires small brakes. Unless there's going to be trend of lowering HP in cars, and going back to drum brakes, the Tweel just won't be able to work with many cars that have modern brake rotors and calipers.

Third, the Tweel is a wheel and tire unit. You can't install a Tweel tire onto your existing wheels. This also is multiple of problems. First of all, the cost of the unit is much higher than the cost of just a normal tire. People are not willing to buy new wheels every time they need to get a new tire. Second, even if you did manage to make a Tweel tire and wheel as separate units, you would need all new tire machines for all the stores that work on these. Store owners don't want to spend thousands of $ on equipment for a product that might turn out to be an unpopular gimmick. Michelin tried something like this with their PAX system in mid 2k Honda Odysseys and few other cars, and that turned out fairly badly for everyone.

As cool as it looks, it is not a replacement for modern general market tires. It can work for limited special use like some specialty army vehicles, or NASA moon buggies and rovers, but that's about it.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:14 AM   #27 (permalink)
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but it's not street legal. skycar was supposed to be street legal.
Never going to happen. I say this as a pilot. A street legal skycar? The average idiot can't even drive a car. Most cars are automatic now and have very limited controllability forward and reverse sometimes you even get to turn it. Very simple concept yet people get distracted and kill each other. No way an "average person" can control a vehicle in 3 different planes (fly). Fun idea impossible in practice.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:35 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Never going to happen. I say this as a pilot. A street legal skycar? The average idiot can't even drive a car. Most cars are automatic now and have very limited controllability forward and reverse sometimes you even get to turn it. Very simple concept yet people get distracted and kill each other. No way an "average person" can control a vehicle in 3 different planes (fly). Fun idea impossible in practice.
It's already been done half a dozen times.

Even with vehicles in customer hands, no company has been able to grab traction in the market... I think that it's predominantly a cost to consumer issue. A car that converts into a plane will cost as much as a similar sized plane. And won't get you chicks like a corvette.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:48 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SilentNuke View Post
Never going to happen. I say this as a pilot. A street legal skycar? The average idiot can't even drive a car. Most cars are automatic now and have very limited controllability forward and reverse sometimes you even get to turn it. Very simple concept yet people get distracted and kill each other. No way an "average person" can control a vehicle in 3 different planes (fly). Fun idea impossible in practice.
beechcraft bonanza . . . plenty of smart people can't fly planes

I think the limiting factor on top of what would be extraordinary cost would be the expense of insurance.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:19 PM   #30 (permalink)
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So much misinformation in here. Without divulging confidential details from when I worked on this project, see below.

http://up.autotitre.com/3b14d7af28.jpg
http://up.autotitre.com/43dedf05eb.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by titan aresta View Post
Michelin has worked on the Tweel for at least 15 years, but it's never going to enter the market (at least not for general population use). They might have hoped that it could be introduced to the public a long time ago, but that time has passed, and the Tweel has too many things going against it to be a marketable product these days.

First and foremost, it is my understanding that it gives a fairly harsh ride. People want a good ride from their tires, and there's no way to make any form of rubber that will be a better cushion than air. The rubber doesn't create the same suspension effect as air, however the spokes do. There are polymers available with a continuously variable modulus of elasticity that is controlled via readings from multiple accelerometers positioned on suspension components and within the cabin under the occupants.

Second, the Tweel needs to have high profile "sidewalls", and smaller diameter wheels. False. We were successfully testing ~31.5" comparable tires with a 1.5" thick treadband and a ~14" hub on a mid-size commercial truck; on and off-road conditions, city and highway speeds. High profile tires, and small wheels are waaaay out of fashion, and that's not going to reverse itself. Even the most economic cars these days come with 17"+ from factory as an option. Another problem with this is that a small wheel requires small brakes. Unless there's going to be trend of lowering HP in cars, and going back to drum brakes, the Tweel just won't be able to work with many cars that have modern brake rotors and calipers. First, lowering HP has nothing to do with the brake's ability to stop a vehicle or the components chosen for said system. The weight of a vehicle and rate of travel determine the vehicle's inertia that must be overcome to bring the vehicle to a stop within a specified distance. Brakes are sized for the thermal capacity required as the forward kinetic energy of the vehicle is converted into heat by the braking system noting that the coefficient of friction of the pad/shoe material decreases as temperature increases. Heat is transferred through the caliper into the fluid, or through the shoe into the drum and the caliper/disk/drum begin to heat soak. Second, the spokes in the Tweel project radially outward from the hub in the same plane as the hub. The hub could be 5" in diameter and the spokes still would not interfere with the braking system. The differential spring rate of the spoke material as it heats and cools with use is the limiting technological factor at this point.

Third, the Tweel is a wheel and tire unit. You can't install a Tweel tire onto your existing wheels. This also is multiple of problems. First of all, the cost of the unit is much higher than the cost of just a normal tire. People are not willing to buy new wheels every time they need to get a new tire. Second, even if you did manage to make a Tweel tire and wheel as separate units, you would need all new tire machines for all the stores that work on these. Store owners don't want to spend thousands of $ on equipment for a product that might turn out to be an unpopular gimmick. Michelin tried something like this with their PAX system in mid 2k Honda Odysseys and few other cars, and that turned out fairly badly for everyone. I can't argue with the cost to the consumer and the associated cost of modernizing the support infrastructure. However, Tweels are capable of being retreaded as is common in the trucking, heavy equipment, and aircraft industries as a means of reducing the cost of ownership of the tire. Again, lifespan of the spoke material with repeated heat cycling was the limiting factor when we were involved.

As cool as it looks, it is not a replacement for modern general market tires. It can work for limited special use like some specialty army vehicles, or NASA moon buggies and rovers, but that's about it. This is right on.
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