General

[Mar]

Originally Posted by mike31c

Okay, except those were the rules! He had his chance to speak, he was aware of the time limit and he was aware his time was up.

alright, let's get this one out of the way...

Does anybody here think that if his questions were along the lines of: "How do I get to be as smart and awesome as you, Mr. Kerry" or "Is it hard being perfect, and as a follow up is it hard being handsome?"

Do you think they would have arrested him for "distrubing the peace?"

[Talfuchre]

You mean if they screened the questioners like our President does at his 'town hall meetings'?

TF

[kidneythief]

Originally Posted by Mar

alright, let's get this one out of the way...

Does anybody here think that if his questions were along the lines of: "How do I get to be as smart and awesome as you, Mr. Kerry" or "Is it hard being perfect, and as a follow up is it hard being handsome?"

Do you think they would have arrested him for "distrubing the peace?"

Nope because he wouldn't have been "disturbing the peace".

It seems that your just grabbing for air at this point Mar. I think I finally get the persona your attempting to achieve here on MCB. I absolutely love reading posts/news columns authored by the " the government has too much power" chuckle heads, it always gives me a good laugh.

Keep in mind that common sense doesn't equate to dictatorship. The kid started breaking the law when he began resisting arrest. Plain and simple....you may never understand that but it is fact.

-Jake

[Gabe]

Originally Posted by Shane-O

Are you really sure that 5 cops is all it takes? When someone doesnt want to be cuffed it is extremely hard to do, no matter their build. What would you suggest to do after someone refuses to go along with polite requests?

The kid can be heard to say "I'll walk out of here". They never made a polite request, the cops simply grabbed him by the arms without saying why they were doing so and slapped the cuffs on him even after he said he would leave if that had been what they wanted him to do. The cops really had no reason to physically restrain him because he wasn't doing anything threatening that would require restrainment.

Also, the kid WAS resisting arrest but there was really no reason he was arrested. The only thing that he did was go over his time limit which should really only be a warning or a request to leave the debate area. Two police officers taking a kid by the arm to escort him out is way too much force for simply going over his time limit. Actually the cops were breaking the law by arresting this kid without telling him what he was being arrested for. You cannot simply arrest someone first and then make up some BS charge like 'resisting arrest' when you had no reason to arrest in the first place.

[Mar]

Originally Posted by kidneythief

Nope because he wouldn't have been "disturbing the peace".

It seems that your just grabbing for air at this point Mar. I think I finally get the persona your attempting to achieve here on MCB. I absolutely love reading posts/news columns authored by the " the government has too much power" chuckle heads, it always gives me a good laugh.

Keep in mind that common sense doesn't equate to dictatorship. The kid started breaking the law when he began resisting arrest. Plain and simple....you may never understand that but it is fact.

-Jake

you give yourself too much credit. There is no persona I am attempting to achieve. I have been attempting to address this small issue in pieces rather than open the floodgates about what it really means or is really a symptom of.

As far as the Government having too much power: I spend my day, at my discretion registering warrants and liens and seizing bank accounts and sending the sherrif to seize goods and cash...not just filling out the paper work, but making these decisions. I understand the power I sit on better than you can imagine.

I also understand exactly what happened in that auditorium, although it doesn';t jive with your opinion that doesn't surprise me one bit, nor does it take away from mine.

This is exactly what I would predict and expect from a society that in my life I have seen fire-bomb the "MOVE" house, and call in the national guard to resist de-segregation.

The answer seems to always require force before reason and dialog.

What you suffer from is an inablity to look at a problem with any objectivity or from anothers point of view.

The boy may have resisted arrest, but that really isn't what this is all about.

[Walking_Target]

Yep;

You *Cannot* be arrested without charge.

Formal procedure is to state the charge(s) and inform them of their Miranda rights.
up here the police are damn sure to do both of those things, as if they do not, not only is the person released, but the person is in a position to charge the police dept. with False Arrest, Kidnapping and is in a position to sue them for damages and wrongful imprisonment.

[sloonan]

Kerry and Bush were both in Skull and Bones.
List of Skull and Bones members - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Kerry definitely had an opportunity here to win some hearts and minds by demanding the police to leave the boy alone.

[incynr8]

Originally Posted by sloonan

Kerry definitely had an opportunity here to win some hearts and minds by demanding the police to leave the boy alone.

I'm not sure it would have changed anyone's behaviors.

[Mar]

Originally Posted by kidneythief

It seems that your just grabbing for air at this point Mar.

I'd like to finish addressing this post.

I had to cut my previous reply short as I was on my way to work.

I have seen a lot of arguments thrown into the ring here about this event, what it meant, and how it was handled. Instead of addressing them I have made subtle contributions (the Tiananmen pic) which of course I did not believe was on the same level as this incident, but of course they do bear striking similarities.

Some people continue to insist that the arrest was justified because the boy went over his time. I tried to address this above. He wasn’t arrested because of some time limit, if he had spent his overage discussing how winnable Iraq is, and how smooth Mr. Kerry’s skin is, he would have been accommodated. So this argument is moot.

Some people say: “he knew the rules, and consented to them” I can guarantee you he did not consent to being tazed, in fact, he begged not to be.

Someone suggested that he had infringed on the ‘rights’ of others to have a turn on the Microphone. A cursory examination of the constitution doesn’t mention this right, it is not an infringement so much as an inconvenience.

One telling part of this incident is the police report: One officer says that the kid was saying asking about bl0wj0bs. Ever heard of an ink blot test? This is funny to me, I hear the kid talking about impeachment and election results, and documented historical issues regarding a previous president. It’s all how you look at things I suppose.

And again as to establishing a ‘persona’ here. I will not be made to feel unwelcome on this forum because I disagree about issues of law and justice. I do not disagree for the sake of disagreement; I do so because I have an opinion and choose to express it to add to the dialog, whether it is an attempt at humour or a genuine feeling or expression. Fortunately MCB was not founded to be a political or legal forum of a certain slant, or I would not fit in, as I barely do now. Please do not attempt to invalidate my arguments or the points I make by suggesting that they have to do with an attempt to construct some personality of disenfranchisement.

I have read and written papers on police and the excessive use of force. But I would not sit here and engage a loss prevention officer from Wal-Mart about how hard it is to cuff someone, because it really isn't the point.

Like everything else, no one is under any obligation to agree with me, but once in a while even Christian Nelson and I agree on an issue, and when that happens it serves to remind me that the differences really aren’t what is important. Even Shartley, who lord knows sees things from a different point of view than I do, or others do, will testify that these differences about this issue and that issue aren’t who we are, when he opens boxes of donated clothing and goods for his family.

DOn't presume too much based on what you see in one place my friend, you may run into me one day and end up liking me quite a bit.

[Grouch]

Mar, while I agree with most of what you wrote above, the kid did ask for it. He can say all day long "don't taz me bro" but that doesn't change the fact that he had far more control in the situation than he exercised. He could have easily prevented his impending taz by mearly acting like a civil adult and exiting the room. This isn't about free speach either, the kids political views and intent of causing a disruption nullifies his free speach rights. With freedom comes responsibilty. He chose poorly.