General

[Mar]

Originally Posted by Grouch

Mar, while I agree with most of what you wrote above, the kid did ask for it. He can say all day long "don't taz me bro" but that doesn't change the fact that he had far more control in the situation than he exercised. He could have easily prevented his impending taz by mearly acting like a civil adult and exiting the room. This isn't about free speach either, the kids political views and intent of causing a disruption nullifies his free speach rights. With freedom comes responsibilty. He chose poorly.

political views nullify free speech rights? c'mon Grouch... Political views are protected by free speech rights.

I am not sure what it would take to loose your free speech rights. I know being on a school campus helps (suspend free speech rights) as per a recent Supreme court decision.

but thanks for reading my post and finding some common ground, I appreciate that a lot.

[Grouch]

Originally Posted by Mar

political views nullify free speech rights? c'mon Grouch... Political views are protected by free speech rights.

Not at all but intent does. This kid's sole mission was to cause a stink. Let's say the day before all this happened the kid goes into class hellbent on having a "discussion" with his professor. When the professor asks the class if there is any question, the kid responds with a 40 minute filibuster with the intention of disrupting the lecture. Is the professor suppose to sit on his hands and let young lad spew his venomous rant due to freedom of speech issues? Would this be fair to the others in the class? If the professor were to stop the kid would his rights have been infringed upon? If the kid refused to shut up, what recourse would he professor have other than call campus security to have him removed (not arrested)? If the kid refused to go quietly by his own accord then further means would be needed to remove the kid from the class making reasonable measures to do so his fault.

Had I been a student at that lecture, I would have told that kid to shut the hell up after it was obvious what his motives were. Hopefully more would have done the same and none of this would have happened. We need to exercise our freedoms responsibly. We also need to hold our peers responsible when they don't. If I were Kerry, I would have reminded the kid to watch his manors when addressing an adult, much less a sitting US senator, but I also understand why he couldn't. All the internet blogs and political venom in our culture today caused this. Can you imagine this happening at the turn of he century? Even if every student in that forum were to disagree with everything Kerry said, the students would have still respected him for his position and contribution to our country. My how we have fallen, but we have much more to go before we hit the bottom.

Mar, I understand to you it was how the kid was treated. For me, it was how the kid acted. The kid bears more responsibility in his treatment than people are willing to admit. Slippery slope I know but it is one that has to be negotiated.

[Clearush]

He's a punk kid that pulled this stunt on purpose and is well known on the campus for pulling prank/stunts to post on his website. He staged it on purpose and the Police officers were kind enough to comply in something they didn't know was going on.

Tasered Student Has History Of Practical Jokes - News Story - WPLG Miami

GAINESVILLE, Fla. -- Video of police Tasering a persistent questioner of Sen. John Kerry became an Internet and TV sensation Tuesday, generating fierce debate about free speech and the motives of the college student involved - a known prankster who often posts practical jokes online.

University of Florida President Bernie Machen said Monday's takedown, in which the student loudly yelled, "Don't Tase me, bro!" was "regretful." He asked for a state probe of campus police actions and placed two officers on leave.

The student in the middle of it all, 21-year-old Andrew Meyer, had no comment after he was released on his recognizance on various charges following a night in jail.

But details from his online writings and videos raised the question of whether his harangue during the forum was genuine or some kind of stunt.

Meyer, a senior telecommunications major from the Fort Lauderdale suburb of Weston, has a Web site featuring several homemade videos. In one, he stands in a street with a sign that says "Harry Dies" after the latest Harry Potter book was released. In another, he acts like a drunk in a bar while trying to pick up a man dressed in drag.

The site also has what is called a "disorganized diatribe" attributed to Meyer that criticizes the Iraq war, the news media for not covering the conflict enough and the American public for paying too much attention to celebrity news.

Another site had pictures of Meyer licking a woman's face and making a suggestive pose as he stood beas up, police said. He had asked Kerry about impeaching President Bush, why he didn't challenge the 2004 election results and whether he and Bush were members of the secret society Skull and Bones at Yale University.

After Meyer repeatedly and loudly refused to walk away, two officers took him by the arms. Kerry can be heard saying, "That's all right, let me answer his question."

Audience members applauded, though it was difficult to tell whether it was for the officers' action or Kerry's remark. The audience for the most part sat quietly and watched the fracas.

Meyer struggled for several seconds as up to four officers tried to remove him from the room. He screamed for help and tried to break away from officers with his arms flailing, then was forced to the ground and ordered to stop resisting.

As Kerry told the audience he will answer the student's "very important question," Meyer yelled at the officers to release him, crying out, "Don't Tase me, bro," just before he was shocked. He was led from the room, screaming, "What did I do?"

An officer, however, said in the police report that Meyer's "demeanor completely changed once the cameras were not in sight" and that he was "laughing" and "lighthearted" on the way to jail.

Kerry, D-Mass., said Tuesday he regretted that a healthy discussion was interrupted, and said he never had a dialogue end that way in 37 years of public appearances.

"Whatever happened, the police had a reason, had made their decision that there was something they needed to do. Then it's a law enforcement issue, not mine," he told The Associated Press in Washington.

Meyer was arrested on charges of resisting an officer and disturbing the peace but the State Attorney's Office had yet to make the formal charging decision. Police recommended charges of resisting arrest with violence, a felony, and disturbing the peace and interfering with school administrative functions, a misdemeanor.

Griscti said Meyer was resting and wouldn't speak with reporters.

"He's had a long night, obviously," Griscti said.

and the police report of course

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/0...ort.072274.pdf

[incynr8]

For instance, at the very moment that Andrew Meyer said "Don't tase me, brol," a freak wormhole opened up in the fabric of the space-time continuum and carried his words far far back in time across almost infinite reaches of space to a distant Galaxy where strange and warlike beings were poised on the brink of frightful interstellar battle. The two opposing leaders, resplendent in their black jewelled battle shorts, were meeting for the last time, when, a dreadful silence fell, and, at that very moment, the words, "Don't tase me, bro" drifted across the conference table. Unfortunately, in their native tongue, this was the most appalling insult imaginable, so the two opposing battle fleets decided to settle their few remaining differences in order to launch a joint attack on our galaxy, now positively identified as the source of the offending remark. For thousands of years the mighty starships tore across the empty wastes of space and finally dived screaming on to the planet Earth - where, due to a terrible miscalculation of scale, the entire battle fleet was accidentally swallowed by a small dog. Those who study the complex interplay of cause and effect in the history of the Universe say that this sort of thing is going on all the time.

[Mar]

I think although intent can be a bar to free speech, in this case I do not think it was.

I think the only reason the police were justified in removing him is that this happened on a campus at an event.

If he stood on a sidewalk, asking the same questions aloud and waving a sign (peacefully) with the exact same intent (to upset John Kerry, to raise valid questions about elections results...whatever) I believe he would be exercising his free speech rights.

Was his intent to be an ***? I guess it was. ALthough I think his questions alone are valid questions, the manner in which he asked them without giving the candidate a chance to respond was silly.

I think it contributed to the confusion that Mr. Kerry wanted a go at the kid. I think that may have added fuel to the kids fire.

Really, the kid's intent isn't the big deal in my eyes. What if he had stood there in a poker.com tee-shirt, and asked a very sensible question, but his intent had been to advertise for a website? Bad intention again (maybe), no consequence. He wanted to ask questions that made Mr. Kerry uncomfortable, and Mr. Kerry seemed to handle this well. The people that seemed to be having a hard time with it were the police and the Microphone on/off guy.

did he bait the cops? yeah, I believe he did....but shouldn't they be above this kind of nonsense?

[idkfa]

Originally Posted by incynr8

For instance, at the very moment that Andrew Meyer said "Don't tase me, brol," a freak wormhole opened up in the fabric of the space-time continuum and carried his words far far back in time across almost infinite reaches of space to a distant Galaxy where strange and warlike beings were poised on the brink of frightful interstellar battle. The two opposing leaders, resplendent in their black jewelled battle shorts, were meeting for the last time, when, a dreadful silence fell, and, at that very moment, the words, "Don't tase me, bro" drifted across the conference table. Unfortunately, in their native tongue, this was the most appalling insult imaginable, so the two opposing battle fleets decided to settle their few remaining differences in order to launch a joint attack on our galaxy, now positively identified as the source of the offending remark. For thousands of years the mighty starships tore across the empty wastes of space and finally dived screaming on to the planet Earth - where, due to a tonsense:errible miscalculation of scale, the entire battle fleet was accidentally swallowed by a small dog. Those who study the complex interplay of cause and effect in the history of the Universe say that this sort of thing is going on all the time.

...

I think a little bit of my brain just came out my ear...

[Grouch]

Originally Posted by idkfa

...

I think a little bit of my brain just came out my ear...

Mine too, I am still laughing. Having read the police report in full makes it all the more entertaining.

[HP_Lovecraft]

Originally Posted by Clearush

He's a punk kid that pulled this stunt on purpose and is well known on the campus for pulling prank/stunts to post on his website.

This is %100 true, and I feel NO SYMPATHY for the kid. This was the best possible outcome for him, as he will make a HUGE amount of money from this.

But the police still were in the wrong. He baited the police, and they tazered him, WHEN THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE.

Tazers are supposed to substitute using a firearm. They are NOT "Non-lethal". They do kill people from time to time, and cause extreme pain. Again, thats why liability rules dictate that it should only be used as an alternative to shooting the person. Not just to keep someone quiet.

Watch the video. The police CLEARLY had him subdued, and handcuffs were on. The "Man-Women" cop tazered him to keep him quiet, and stop disrupting Kerry.

CLEARY they were told that it was a HUGE event for Kerry to speak, and they should stop any disruptions. Even Kerry told them he would answer his questions.

Some of those cops will loose there jobs, and college/police/individuals will shell out millions to this jerk of a kid.

It is a HUGE black eye for law enforcement, and the lack of tort reform.

nick

[incynr8]

I doubt he'll get paid. We'll all pay when that battle fleet gets here.

[Grouch]

Originally Posted by incynr8

I doubt he'll get paid. We'll all pay when that battle fleet gets here.

We always do don't we? Seriously, way to put a wet blanket on a heated debate. Funny stuff.