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Old 10-03-2007, 08:52 AM   #41 (permalink)
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The attitude that it's no big deal to up and leave and find another job is young and naive. The older you get, the more you have at stake and the scarier that proposition is. And the older and more experience you get, the harder it is to find a job that pays commensurately in an economy where the employer grows ever stronger. Young entry level stooges who see no need for benefits, non-tiered pay and job security are the ones in demand.

Among the working class, who retires comfortably with good benefits and cashflow? It's not the people who could not stick with a job for more than a few years at a time, that's for sure.
Unions do take good care of their members. Unfortunately they take such good care of the workers that the company often goes out of business. When workers are paid more than they are worth(and lets face it, some union workers are compensated at college graduate rates for jobs that any McDonald's employee could do) the company cannot sustain their operations due to the workers taking up too much of the bottom line. I'm all for people being paid well and having good benefits but from what I've seen in my town, a Union would rather get the workers a better pay rate and benefit package every 3 years than work with the company to make sure the company is still around in 3 years. A union has never kept a factory from closing and it's jobs from moving to Mexico or China. So, the Union took good care of it's workers while the shop was open but ran the shop out of business or out of town by bargaining for inappropriately high pay rates and rich benefit packages.

I have worked at the same company for 16 years. A union vote was made a few years ago. If we were able to get what the Union promised us if we voted them in, I'd be unemployed right now or working for a competitor at 1/2 my current rate because in the business I'm in, there is no room at the bottom line for union wages and benefits. I'd like to make more money but I can see the big picture and the big picture is that a union cannot make money appear from nowhere and if the union negotiates wages and benefits that strain a struggling company to the breaking point, everyone is out of work. 2 years of great wages and then unemployment or 20 more years of fair wages in a secure job? I'd pick the second one.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:06 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Well here in Florida is a right to work state...which means employers can run over you any way the want to..Unions in different areas of the country are run differently...I was a Union sheetmetal worker for 12 years before I got hurt..I traveled as a working field supervisor in 17 states and several countries..working on powerplants/nuclear, papermills,drug companies and the such....the education with the union was top notch...four to five years of schooling before you get a journeymans license...yes some older members are behind the times and we take care of them...sometimes old school is the best way to complete a job...sometimes with alittle bit of new school slide in. If it wasn't for the old timers ..we would not be enjoying the livelyhood that feeds our families...just look around in my county and see that the average wage here is $9.00 to $15.00 an hour for non-union..I could not keep my family fed on this...as far as job slackers..they are in the union and in non-union jobs...I for one in the sheetmetal trade now that we busted butt working.
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Old 10-04-2007, 11:13 PM   #43 (permalink)
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You know , I don't get threads like this. They only start flame wars. I confess I was sucked into this one , but I'm though now. Arguing for the sake of arguing is stupid.

I think I have made my mind up to just leave the mcb community because I don't want to spend time in an on-line forum with people that I wouldn't hang out with , and I guarantee I would NOT hang out with a lot of the people here. I haven't been a member here very long , and I know my leaving isn't going to make a difference so...........

Whether you want to admit it or not , in the small time I have been here there have been several threads posted seemingly with the sole purpose of getting people fighting over the Internet.

I may check the b/s/t section every now and then , but I doubt I just hang out here anymore.

I'm done for a while
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Old 10-05-2007, 05:27 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Well if this is how you judge us then your very mistaken.... There we're only a handful of contributor's also...

You need to take everything for what it is... Since the internet is so very anonymous people tend to get out of hand with their comments... plus the fact that you can't read emotion or attitude very well..

I think we clearly saw both sides of the fence... People tend to have stronger opinions here because we're a slightly older, dare I say wiser crowd... and maybe people only know of the negative without the possiblilty that maybe just maybe there is good in something, just not for them...

There's are also things called not posting anymore in the current discussion because your not going to persuade anyone to change their minds..

Several of us that have good experiences with union's have stayed in such... Not because of their past but because it fits what we want to do for a living and can survive on the funds generated by doing such...


I don't know why I felt I needed to post this.... Now we have learned our lesson of getting sucked into a no end discussion...

Fu** talking about work........ Let's go grab a beer and play some paintball...
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Old 10-05-2007, 06:11 AM   #45 (permalink)
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I read all this waiting for a reference to Sinclair's Jungle.
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Old 10-05-2007, 06:37 AM   #46 (permalink)
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union and proud!

yeah there are some slackers at my shop, but.....

there are those of us who bust our *** and appreciate all the union has to offer

i have a large family<6 kids>

try makin the ends meet on $10hr and no insurance

now i'm making far better and a great bene package

once again

union and proud
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Old 10-05-2007, 08:13 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I read all this waiting for a reference to Sinclair's Jungle.
I was going to try to work in something about needing unions when we were still grinding up guys in the sausage machines but I just couldn't get it to work out right.

Sorry bro. I tried to uphold my literary heritage, I really did...
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Old 10-05-2007, 08:27 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by greezypete View Post
You know , I don't get threads like this. They only start flame wars. I confess I was sucked into this one , but I'm though now. Arguing for the sake of arguing is stupid.

I think I have made my mind up to just leave the mcb community because I don't want to spend time in an on-line forum with people that I wouldn't hang out with , and I guarantee I would NOT hang out with a lot of the people here. I haven't been a member here very long , and I know my leaving isn't going to make a difference so...........

Whether you want to admit it or not , in the small time I have been here there have been several threads posted seemingly with the sole purpose of getting people fighting over the Internet.

I may check the b/s/t section every now and then , but I doubt I just hang out here anymore.

I'm done for a while
I'm sorry to hear that you can dislike people simply because their opinions are different than yours. I don't think anyone in this thread or any other that I can remember has personally attacked anyone for their beliefs on any particular subject. We are all different people, we all come from different places and have different lives. If you can't accept that everyone is different and entitled to their own opinions and beliefs then I think you need to look more closely at the problems you have with this site and the people here to determine where the problems really reside.

If there was no difference in opinion then what would the "General Chat" section be good for?

New Thread: "I like ice cream"

Response: "Me too"
Response: "Me too"
Response: "Me too"
Response: "Me too"

Variety is the spice of life. You don't have to like the opinions and beliefs of the other folks here but you have to recognize that they are just as valid as yours. You'll have a tough time finding a nicer group of people on the internet(even if our opinions all suck).
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Old 10-05-2007, 08:46 AM   #49 (permalink)
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I have not seen any fighting or out right flaming on MCB...I just sent my money in to join...This forum has on tap some of the most experanced players,inventors,repair gurus and shade tree builders...if you don't agree with it all...just think what you can pick up just from little bits and pieces from the posts...or keep searching the forum until you find the nich your are looking for....good luck...give it a try...
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Old 10-05-2007, 08:46 AM   #50 (permalink)
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You'll have a tough time finding a nicer group of people on the internet(even if our opinions all suck).

I think I have finaly found a quote for my tag line.

Having worked two different jobs with union affiliated companies, one as a non-union laborer on a union construction site and now as a saliried office worker, I have no love for unions. They had their time and place but for the most part that is past IMHO. If you don't like your job, there is another one out there waiting. And it has been my experiance that moving job to job can be a good thing if you stay for several years at a stop and are willing to accept more responcability at each one.
I have examples of bad employees both union and non-union..the difference is that you can get rid of the non-union ones.
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You'll have a tough time finding a nicer group of people on the internet(even if our opinions all suck).

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I've dealt with canadians several times and I usually undercharge by 2-5 dollars cause I feel bad for them sometimes. Just my 2cents.

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