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Old 06-20-2013, 12:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
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They've been on the front line and in special forces in Israel in the late 40's and 50's and then allowed again in the 90's to the present day. They go through the same training and are equally as deadly.

Also, service is required by both men and women at a certain age. Its up to them in what area they want to serve and if they want to continue serving after their required time.

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Women in the army

"The Army is the supreme symbol of duty, and as long as women are not equal to men in performing this duty, they have not yet obtained true equality. If the daughters of Israel are absent from the army, then the character of the Yishuv (Jewish community in Israel) will be distorted."
David Ben Gurion
There's no better way to deliver a message to a group of radicals that believe women should be property to be shrouded, uneducated, and kept at home.

My only complaint would be if the US government ever prevented them from serving in areas with backwards ideals as to "not offend a culture".

Last edited by boo; 06-20-2013 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
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http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...le/female1.jpg
They've been on the front line and in special forces in Israel in the late 40's and 50's and then allowed again in the 90's to the present day. They go through the same training and are equally as deadly.
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:30 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Well, if Demi Moore can do it....
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Average men and average women can't cut it in SF.

My only concerns about this are lowering of standards to qualify (and the lives that this endangers) and wasted time and money when people (either gender) start deciding to sue because they didn't get in.
Yep. It's a very real concern as well Nish. Top brass has already been quoted saying that basically it's going to have to happen (standards gerrymandering).
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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By allowing another half of the population to attempt to pass the testing for entry, then clearly they should be able to raise standards as they are now drawing from a larger group.

While I can accept a standards modification for specific tasks and roles (ie, new doctrine of employing smaller, lighter soldiers to deploy on missions of a specific profile, which means the requirement of being able to drag a larger solider is nullified), I really do not accept lowering of standards just to allow more people in.

Now if detailed reevaluation of existing standards finds various ones needlessly high or low, then of course they should be updated. But such changes would require very strict study and oversight.

I really can't see how a discrimination lawsuit could float if everyone involved stays professional and on task. The fact that you are "Whatever" has no impact on you not making the cut if it can be demonstrated that you failed to achieve minimum specifications. As long as trainers are fair and impartial, there will be nothing for a complaint to stand on.
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:07 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Ashley Scherff: I hope they're making them pass exactly the same physical fitness tests as the men! Sorry but when my husband needs rescued, I want someone going in there to get him that can physically pick him up and carry home to safety.
Like Reply 158 3 hours ago via mobile

United States Air Force: Ashley, the Air Education and Training Command physical performance test and standards study will be used to develop and validate occupationally specific, operationally relevant, and gender-neutral Air Force physical performance tests and standards for all seven closed air force specialty codes. (VH)

Double speak translation: We're going to come up with a set of standards that both genders can pass.[/
Once again, politics takes the front seat. Seems like they'll lower the bars to meet whatever political ends makes them look good. I remember reading a SOFREP article which said this exact thing would happen.

Its just sad that anyone without political ambitions would support this. The standards arent there to cater towards different genders. Its there to cater to the job at hand. Hopefully this decision doesnt get anyone killed.

Just a few good reads on the topic
http://sofrep.com/22319/us-lags-behi...pec-ops-units/
http://sofrep.com/18946/women-fail-m...-course-again/
http://sofrep.com/22327/women-serving-in-combat-roles/

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Old 06-24-2013, 06:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I smell a special forces swimsuit calendar coming!!!
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Old 06-27-2013, 02:00 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I smell a special forces swimsuit calendar coming!!!
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:05 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Touchy subject for sure. I was a tank crewman and the 4 of us on that tank did everything together. It was as tight a group as you can get. Besides the physical demands, I don't know how it would be the same with a female in the mix. I don't think I'd be able to stand off the back of the tank and whip it out and relieve myself without fear of some UCMJ consequence. I'm pretty sure SF teams would be similar.

Like someone above said, I would want to be sure whoever they sent to rescue me was up to the task. I weigh 245 and am 6'2". We did evac drills where you stand on top of the turret and pull each other out of the tank by straps in our nomex suits. If a female has the strength to heft me up out of there then I guess she belongs in a SF unit IMHO.
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Old 06-27-2013, 04:13 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Touchy subject for sure. I was a tank crewman and the 4 of us on that tank did everything together. It was as tight a group as you can get. Besides the physical demands, I don't know how it would be the same with a female in the mix. I don't think I'd be able to stand off the back of the tank and whip it out and relieve myself without fear of some UCMJ consequence. I'm pretty sure SF teams would be similar.

Like someone above said, I would want to be sure whoever they sent to rescue me was up to the task. I weigh 245 and am 6'2". We did evac drills where you stand on top of the turret and pull each other out of the tank by straps in our nomex suits. If a female has the strength to heft me up out of there then I guess she belongs in a SF unit IMHO.
how do you guys feel about an all female crew? that way they can have their fair chance to operate, and not worry about awkward moments between genders which both genders probably worry about.
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