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Old 07-21-2014, 05:17 PM   #21 (permalink)
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You're right. It is selfish of them to think they should be allowed to participate in things that able bodied/minded people do.

There's a difference between playing devil's advocate and exposing that you are a sociopath.

Profile of the Sociopath
Profile of the Sociopath
Maybe 1 or 2 of those apply to me, so I think it's pretty safe to assume that I'm a full-blown sociopath, right?
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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If you lack the ability to put yourself in these people's shoes, then yes, I believe that would make you a sociopath.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Then again, maybe that didnt happen I dont know. I just like to, what is the word for someone who argues the other side just because no one else is?
Stubborn jackwagon, thread derailer, the guy who makes few friends. Take your pick. This was supposed to be a nice heartwarming thread and you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Take that over to PBN's off topic.

I do really enjoy this video. Great to see a father's love for his daughter with all the awful things that regularly litter most news sites. It's a big bad world but there are still great little moments like this scattered throughout.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:37 PM   #24 (permalink)
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You're right. It is selfish of them to think they should be allowed to participate in things that able bodied/minded people do.
.
I think we are confusing Gainman's argument that he is trying to defend. I do not think that he is arguing that the girl and her father should not be allowed to participate. He is, from what I can understand, arguing against the concept that she be given some special consideration (or so much consideration) that she "wins" solely based on competing - its one of the reasons to have judges rather than crowd based voting.

That being said we do not even know if this pageant was competitive in nature. Or I do not. Nor did I look

I still maintain that I doubt the father cares if his daughter is given that consideration and wins. I expect he is not doing it for whoever judges it - he is doing it for his daughter. That, IMO, makes it an even greater act.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:41 PM   #25 (permalink)
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But you see, whether they care about what other people think or not, or if they are trying to win or not, they affect peoples lives in this situation, both good for moving people emotionally, and bad for crushing the hopes of another 10 year old or whatever who gave his all, worked tirelessly day and night to put together his routine, and gets nothing for it.

Then again, maybe that didnt happen I dont know. I just like to, what is the word for someone who argues the other side just because no one else is?
The thread was about about the father, not the daughter, or the contest.

Even if it was about the contest, I prefer to watch all of the acts in a competition before deciding where my vote might go. You want to present a position about objective judging, but argue from a position of seeing 1 act. From the objective perspective it is both the best, and worst act you have seen. Having tabbed it as unworthy to win with nothing for comparison you are being subjective.

When I am presented with another participant that more worthy (and yes, that is probable) I will make a decision on who has a better act.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:44 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I think we are confusing Gainman's argument that he is trying to defend. I do not think that he is arguing that the girl and her father should not be allowed to participate. He is, from what I can understand, arguing against the concept that she be given some special consideration (or so much consideration) that she "wins" solely based on competing - its one of the reasons to have judges rather than crowd based voting.
This is what I'm trying to say. I imagine it's what gainman is trying to say as well.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:50 PM   #27 (permalink)
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If you lack the ability to put yourself in these people's shoes, then yes, I believe that would make you a sociopath.
You know I think this might be flawed even if you mean well by it. One of the things I heard that stuck with me in a counseling class was not to use the words "I know how you feel" unless you have been in extremely similar circumstances to the person you were trying to help. While I know the love I have for my children and everything I would do for them I probably do not have any realistic idea of what the parent of a child with developmental needs goes through. I have an intellectual concept but I do not understand it from an emotional viewpoint and chances are, short of being there, I cannot. Its why support groups are so effective for so many people - the people in them have a far better chance of understanding what each person is going through.
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:03 PM   #28 (permalink)
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You know I think this might be flawed even if you mean well by it. One of the things I heard that stuck with me in a counseling class was not to use the words "I know how you feel" unless you have been in extremely similar circumstances to the person you were trying to help. While I know the love I have for my children and everything I would do for them I probably do not have any realistic idea of what the parent of a child with developmental needs goes through. I have an intellectual concept but I do not understand it from an emotional viewpoint and chances are, short of being there, I cannot. Its why support groups are so effective for so many people - the people in them have a far better chance of understanding what each person is going through.
You're looking at it on the micro level, of course we don't know exactly how many bottles of Pedia Sure this guy has had to wake up and give to his daughter past midnight over the years. We also don't know what he feels everytime he has to bring her to the hospital. We don't know every thing that she is thinking.
With that said, if you are unable to relate with people on the macro level, you're a sociopath.

I need to butt out of this thread for a bit, matrix and gainman's posts have made my blood boil.
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:11 PM   #29 (permalink)
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You're looking at it on the micro level, of course we don't know exactly how many bottles of Pedia Sure this guy has had to wake up and give to his daughter past midnight over the years. We also don't know what he feels everytime he has to bring her to the hospital. We don't know every thing that she is thinking.
With that said, if you are unable to relate with people on the macro level, you're a sociopath.

I need to butt out of this thread for a bit, matrix and gainman's posts have made my blood boil.
Your good. Considering my education is in psychology I am going to have to recommend they talk to you because my understanding was diagnosing someone with a disorder over the internet based on a few posts was impossible. Anti-personality disorder is commonly diagnosed through actions and a lack of capacity to show (or have) remorse. Very seldom is it diagnosed based on a lack of empathy. But hey that's just using the diagnostic procedures in the DSM IV manual (there is a 5th edition - maybe they changed things). It would be the equivalent of me making massive assumptions about you because people disagreeing with you in a thread "makes your blood boil" before we really understand the argument they were trying to make. Its unfair and unreasonable to do. We can have these discussions and attempt to see why others are saying what they are saying or we can throw names around at each other. One helps us to understand and see things from points of views we may not have considered and is useful, even if we do not agree with the argument in the end.
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:19 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I have gotten way off course. I apologize. I applaud what the father did. I doubt he cares what we or the judges think. It was between him and his daughter and it is a heartwarming act that I am thankful was shared. I hope it took nothing away from anyone because I doubt that was ever the intent. Sometimes we place to much emphasis on competition. I hope this event did not. I think it was a great action and was between the parent and the child. I hope to be able to appreciate it as that
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