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Old 08-23-2014, 09:02 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertT1 View Post
Where I work we have had layoffs in a small trickle for quite a while. Every 2 weeks, anywhere from 5-40 (closer to 5 is the norm), for the last 16 months or so. I know 10 people who have been hit. All but one were basically given a 2 week option. They could leave that day if they wanted, or they could work 2 more weeks. Those who were looking at retiring soon just left, others stayed. The company is 10k+ in this location and part of the severance is 1 weeks pay for every year there. So yes, some places do give you what boils down to a 2-week notice.
i had the same thing once. where our truss plant was give time when we would closed down. they gave people option to go out and look for work and leave before they would shut us down in 2 months. if you would stayed they worked in till day we closed down and got 2 week severance plus what ever you had in sick days and vc. me and 2 other people got huge checks since to much vac and six days. if someone is playing games with you. best thing to do is look out for your self. since you do not want to be in spot where he does let you go and you do not have anything lined up.
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Old 08-24-2014, 12:39 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
A). The last employee I "dismissed" was over a decade ago. Cooler heads prevailed in that one and he is now my lead tech. Maybe the hiring process at the shop really is good

B). Your interview assumes he has already left as you have written it. It does not address any issue of notice.

C). I'm not in the dark on this. Shall I cite my education in Industrial psychology, my study of hiring practices and the validation (actually the lack of) of the validity of occupational qualifications, or my actual experience in the field?

D). What does giving two weeks cost you? Do you really want to go to an
employer who is so egocentric and disorganized that he or she demands you start without notice to your previous player?

E). Funny thing. When you leave working for me I don't take notice as paramount. Is it nice? Sure is. Am I going to hold not having it against you? Not really.

F). This assumption that all employers are crooked and somehow evil is wrong and somewhat hurtful. I would guess a web search and discovery of such an attitude would be more damaging in the hiring process than lack of notice given

G). Bucks a big boy. He asked a question I answered it from my perspective which I think is slightly unique. He's smart enough to disregard anything irrelevant.
My interview, as presented, works whether you have left your place of employment or not. In fact, if you're interviewing on a Monday, then you may be building in a few days of rest and relaxation before starting your new job. There are many options... Ranging from giving no notice to giving 6 months notice. 2 is traditional. Who wants to be traditional when employers want battle-hardened bleeding-edge professionals?

What my interview addresses is the idea that your interviewer will be judging you on how you're leaving your previous job (something you said you judged on.) It suggests that you're confidently ready to end that relationship, and you may already have a timeline for doing so. If you're already free of that employment, "Next Monday" suggests that you aren't desperate to start working immediately.

I didn't want to convey an assumption that all employers are evil. In fact, I don't believe that the worst behavior is evil in any way... Their goals are clear: To have a successful business. An employee's purpose is also clear: Make that business successful. The issue gets a lot more complex when the employee has needs and wants. Often, employers leave their employees' needs and wants high and dry. See Buck's situation.

If your record is truly as you present it, then you must be a really great guy to work for.

It doesn't sound like Buck's employer is nearly as good.

Desertt1, that is really admirable of your company.
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Last edited by Ruffle; 08-24-2014 at 12:48 AM.
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Old 08-24-2014, 08:22 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ruffle View Post
My interview, as presented, works whether you have left your place of employment or not. In fact, if you're interviewing on a Monday, then you may be building in a few days of rest and relaxation before starting your new job. There are many options... Ranging from giving no notice to giving 6 months notice. 2 is traditional. Who wants to be traditional when employers want battle-hardened bleeding-edge professionals?

What my interview addresses is the idea that your interviewer will be judging you on how you're leaving your previous job (something you said you judged on.) It suggests that you're confidently ready to end that relationship, and you may already have a timeline for doing so. If you're already free of that employment, "Next Monday" suggests that you aren't desperate to start working immediately.

I didn't want to convey an assumption that all employers are evil. In fact, I don't believe that the worst behavior is evil in any way... Their goals are clear: To have a successful business. An employee's purpose is also clear: Make that business successful. The issue gets a lot more complex when the employee has needs and wants. Often, employers leave their employees' needs and wants high and dry. See Buck's situation.

If your record is truly as you present it, then you must be a really great guy to work for.

It doesn't sound like Buck's employer is nearly as good.

Desertt1, that is really admirable of your company.
Define success? If I were to tell my boss (who I happen to call Dad) in any serious way that success in a business was measured primarily in financial terms I would be told to use my education to hire my replacement and find a job where such an attitude would be welcomed. Chances are it would mean getting a law license or a brokers license. Historical data shows that companies that place financial consideration in such a light that results in the failure to consider ethical implications ultimately are less successful than those that consider ethical implications along with financial ones.

Here is the thing about your hypothetical interview answer: it is a canned answer and everyone knows its a canned answer. Why does this matter? Because major companies realize the cost of recruiting and hiring and, more interestingly, the cost of bad hiring decisions. They try very hard to avoid them.

Chances are if you are sitting in an interview the company has decided your resume shows that you possess the skills required in the job in question. In today's world you, and the other applicants, are very likely overqualified for the position at hand o some degree. Beyond so overqualified that you blow the other applicants out of the water is a red flag by the way as overqualified individuals tend to take place in some form of destructive behavior in the work place more often than those who are not overqualified.

So what is the purpose of today's interview? To judge person-environment fit. If your already in the interview, or early in the interview, a competent hiring manager determines that you have person-occupation fit. This same manager also has an understanding that the old hire until retire model is out the window. You left a previous employer chances are you are eventually going to leave this one in about five years. Maybe you are one of the ones that will get the promotions and stay but seems how they are hiring all these aggressive, "bleeding edge", individuals at your level there will not be enough promotions to go around. So they are hiring someone based on how they will fit in the current environment with a consideration of how they will leave. Now part of this depends on field but failing to leave without adequate leave can cause an immense hiccup in a business. If your lucky your canned answer will simply be one less chance for you to make a positive impression on them. Maybe they will ask you follow up questions. However they may also take it as meaning "if you fail to give me the promotion I feel I deserve I'm leaving." That's a fair position. However couple it with a web search that explains how your ok with putting someone in a bind by not giving proper and accepted notice and its less likely to be positive. As more and more of these companies have a tremendous pool of applicants to chose from careful and even invasive hiring practices are becoming more and more common.

Let me consider one other thing about how you leave failing businesses. Around here when a small business fails its common for another business to pick up the pieces - starting at the top. The owner becomes an employee of the competition with the intent of using the beneficial skills and relationships to grow that competitor. Meaning that many times the competition will hire the owner to help bring over the clients and the best of the employees. I can think of at least three occasions that has happened around here that I know of. I can think of two others that involved partial buy-outs with the intent of that happening.
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Old 08-24-2014, 05:45 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Define success? If I were to tell my boss (who I happen to call Dad) in any serious way that success in a business was measured primarily in financial terms I would be told to use my education to hire my replacement and find a job where such an attitude would be welcomed. Chances are it would mean getting a law license or a brokers license. Historical data shows that companies that place financial consideration in such a light that results in the failure to consider ethical implications ultimately are less successful than those that consider ethical implications along with financial ones.

Here is the thing about your hypothetical interview answer: it is a canned answer and everyone knows its a canned answer. Why does this matter? Because major companies realize the cost of recruiting and hiring and, more interestingly, the cost of bad hiring decisions. They try very hard to avoid them.

Chances are if you are sitting in an interview the company has decided your resume shows that you possess the skills required in the job in question. In today's world you, and the other applicants, are very likely overqualified for the position at hand o some degree. Beyond so overqualified that you blow the other applicants out of the water is a red flag by the way as overqualified individuals tend to take place in some form of destructive behavior in the work place more often than those who are not overqualified.

So what is the purpose of today's interview? To judge person-environment fit. If your already in the interview, or early in the interview, a competent hiring manager determines that you have person-occupation fit. This same manager also has an understanding that the old hire until retire model is out the window. You left a previous employer chances are you are eventually going to leave this one in about five years. Maybe you are one of the ones that will get the promotions and stay but seems how they are hiring all these aggressive, "bleeding edge", individuals at your level there will not be enough promotions to go around. So they are hiring someone based on how they will fit in the current environment with a consideration of how they will leave. Now part of this depends on field but failing to leave without adequate leave can cause an immense hiccup in a business. If your lucky your canned answer will simply be one less chance for you to make a positive impression on them. Maybe they will ask you follow up questions. However they may also take it as meaning "if you fail to give me the promotion I feel I deserve I'm leaving." That's a fair position. However couple it with a web search that explains how your ok with putting someone in a bind by not giving proper and accepted notice and its less likely to be positive. As more and more of these companies have a tremendous pool of applicants to chose from careful and even invasive hiring practices are becoming more and more common.

Let me consider one other thing about how you leave failing businesses. Around here when a small business fails its common for another business to pick up the pieces - starting at the top. The owner becomes an employee of the competition with the intent of using the beneficial skills and relationships to grow that competitor. Meaning that many times the competition will hire the owner to help bring over the clients and the best of the employees. I can think of at least three occasions that has happened around here that I know of. I can think of two others that involved partial buy-outs with the intent of that happening.
So what?
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Old 08-24-2014, 07:46 PM   #55 (permalink)
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So what?

Give standard 2 week notice. Failure to do so reflects negatively on you
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Old 08-24-2014, 11:45 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Give standard 2 week notice. Failure to do so reflects negatively on you
So when we say "negatively"... How "negatively" do we mean?

Like... More negatively than being obese? Can driving a Porsche make up for it?
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Old 08-25-2014, 12:27 PM   #57 (permalink)
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In my mind, you never know when you may run into an old employer again, or need to have some sort of business relationship with them, so it is ALWAYS best to try and leave without burning bridges if possible. I know the base instinct to pull a Half-Baked "eff you, eff you, etc, etc" is incredibly tempting but it rarely is advantageous long term.
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Old 08-28-2014, 04:04 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I got accepted for a job in an animal shelter. They are really excited to have me.

I'm giving my boss 2 weeks notice. I'm working on the shelter on my days off to see if it works for me. I start my first day there on Sunday.

The office lady at the ice place said that they (the ice place) would love to have me around on extra days if I want to keep working there part time or only as needed. She said that she is happy i'm leaving in a respectful way even though the boss there really doesn't want to let me go.

Thank you all for the advice. It was great to see many different points of view on the subject.
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Old 08-28-2014, 04:25 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Good for you. Sounds like you have an option for some extra money later on if it's worth it to you and you want to do it.
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:12 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I quit a job once and had the management try to convince me to stay. I listed all the reasons I was quitting, and was completely respectful but blunt and honest. They had a guy from the corporate office talk to me, and I gave him the same.

After I left, the remaining staff got $2/hr raises (one of my points was that we were underpaid for the work we did); numerous safety issues were fixed; and some policies were changed. I say this because sometimes it takes a hurtful loss for an employer to realize that change has to happen. I parted on good terms and they all gave me good references.
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