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Old 08-24-2006, 04:09 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Blackrain,

I think you're mixing up two very different issues.

How much you subject your own wife to surveillance is between you and your wife. It's a private affair. What people are concerned about is the government watching its citizens without probable cause and with a presumption of guilt. They're also concerned with what the government would do with that data. The government also has a long history of doing stuff worse than anyone else can do it. They're a big bloated bureaucracy and the long and the short of it is whenever they get involved in your life, they screw it up somehow. Personally as a libertarian idealist, I think the government should just be about organized force and nothing more. Sadly, even though new technology can promise many benefits it will most likely be corrupted and used to extort even more money from the plebs to keep the fat cats fat.
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Old 08-24-2006, 04:40 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Using my wife was an example of how the box benefits. Personally my life is watched more than the average person on a day to day basis. From what I'm writting now to when my last bank deposite was made. Your answer just went thru about a thousand computors before it was posted to screen for info. Your home and cell phone are clicked on everytime you make a call. Same as when you watch TV. You are always being watch and recorded more than what you think. The "black box" will be there for your protection or prosecution. There is always that sharp lawyer who gets the drunk off scott free and the victim now can't work,and they are the loosers. You can't even walk down the street without being watched. If people are that concerned about being watch,Quit your job,cut off all utilities.Stay in the house and never go outside. Get rid of your phones computors. Basically just fall out of life. Then you might escape big brother. Cause believe me,there are alot worst places than America to live in. Just my two cents.
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Old 08-24-2006, 05:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I like my cars the way I like my markers... without computers

Yes It is usefull to record and present data about accidents and/or incidents.
But, I think that's all it should be used for.

-As for tracking, live monitoring, and insta-tickets I'm against it.
if you really wanna crack down on speeding, why not have governors put in vehicles to limit the top speed ?
Also, if you want people to buckle up so bad wire the ignition through the seat belt so it only works if the seatbelts buckled.
yes people will find a way around these and with the black box I'm sure some talented elctrician/hacker will find a way to screw with the box.

I like my cars the way I like my markers... without computers.
I'll stick with my old diesel truck with a wrecker bumper.

Undoubtedly this Black Box will be used as most/all science is used not only for the good and just. but, to exploit and leech.
-It's not the fact that the information is available to Big Borther its what they use it for. help to improve traffic, vehicles, roadways, and to present information when needed, and/or ticket people instantly. Roadways always seem to be a step behind the traffic...this alone may cause some frustration and lead people to break laws when in a hurry.
-what would happen to police who generate alot of revenue through tickets ?
-what about all the minor infractions everyone commits without a thought. ie the stop sign roll, switching lanes in an intersection, not signaling properly, the seatbelt, lights that are out, the list probably is much longer and may be pretty petty. some of wich could be ticketed without leaving the driveway.

don't forget there is legislation that dictates the size of holes in swiss cheese. It can get pretty petty. and apparently they are pretty bored too.

That's all I got for now. just my thoughts...
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Old 08-24-2006, 08:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I typed out a big response here...reread it and realized that I'm alot more of an anarchist than I thought. The government thinks it has more power than it really does. As mentioned previously, the only reason they are getting away with it is because people just don't care.

Anyway. I'm completely against any sort of black box in my car. It's kinda like the internet. It's got so many good uses, but along with that comes the potential to use it for destructive causes (viruses, spyware, etc.). Which will happen. I know that I probably break a few dozen laws everytime I go driving, rolling stop signs, speeding, reckless driving, turn signals, etc. I'd be in debt in less than a week if they insta-ticketed me. And it's not like I'm a bad driver, it's just those little things don't count for much in my book.
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Old 08-24-2006, 10:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Mine will have a malfunction and never work correctly.

BTW to fix fast lane transponders you just need to make a copper shield.
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Old 08-25-2006, 04:12 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Some thoughts:
Virtually all GM, alot of fords, and some Japanese cars have them. So far, they've been used mainly by Insurance companies to determine fault in major accidents. It's also been used by Prosecutors for vehicular manslaughter.

It won't ever be used as a "tattler" to give you tickets. Lemme put it this way, would you buy a car that did that? It's the same reason why they won't use EZ Pass to issue summonses - if they start using them to give fines, people will stop using them.

As for the Stoplight camera's, the whole thing is a farce. It's a blatant grab at your wallet - think about it - don't they usually give monetary fines with no penalties? It's been proven to actually INCREASE accidents, for two reasons, it increases panic stops, causing rear ending, and because those greedy bastards who install them typically SHORTEN the yellow light time. You want to decrease accidents? Increase the yellow light time. By Federal transportation regulation, a yellow period is supposed to be 1 second for every 10 MPH of the speed limit. A guy did a research study a bunch of years ago, and concluded that they could virtually eliminate signal change accidents by simply increasing the yellow signal time to ten seconds. It was universally ignored, as it would cut into revenue. Consider this, the average payback time for those camera's is 30 days, and they cost over a hundred grand to install one camera, and every one I've seen has had the yellow time shortened - the worst one I know is on Hylan Boulevard, near New Dorp lane here in Staten Island. It's a major road, 3 lanes in each direction. 40 MPH speed limit. And it has a half second yellow. WTF?!


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Old 08-25-2006, 04:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm with B on this one, mine would mysteriously never work correctly.

There's no reason for it other than to monitor the populous.
Building them into EVERY car, is practically useless for research, as this would return TOO MUCH unfiltered data to be usefull.

Let's be honest here, there really aren't all that many "un-solvable" motor vehicle accidents anymore!!
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Old 08-25-2006, 05:10 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I've met people who have received an EZ-Pass speeding ticket on the Florida Turnpike.

then again, I've heard from the agency that runs the program that there are certain vehicles that don't allow proper functioning of the transponders.
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Old 08-25-2006, 06:37 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The government.... its scares me. But, there is no way to escape it. No matter where you go, it is there...
The Black Box could be removed or fried, people will only put up with so much before a revolutionary appears, which now-adays will probably be smited quickly..

BTW, what is a transponder?
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Old 08-25-2006, 07:35 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackrain View Post
...Cause believe me,there are alot worst places than America to live in. Just my two cents.
Later,
Blackrain
Well, there are also some really nice places to live too.

If what you're saying in essence, is "Love It Or Leave It" ... I can find no better response to that, than this little tidbit from a bunch of traitors:

"...whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
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