General

[idkfa]

Originally Posted by Long Beard

I hear what you're saying, but there are other problems. In normal society, I'm not able to tackle you if you have something I want (unless it's a KP). On the football field that's acceptable. In normal society, I can't slam you into the side of the building because you touched something that I perceive to be mine. In hockey that's part of the game.

Hockey is a contact sport. Fighting doesn't happen because you got checked. It often happens (are you ready for this...) as a way to keep the game safe. See you're flying around on these sharp skates on ice (which if you haven't noticed is slippery). You're going at breakneck speeds and people are crashing into you. The entire time you're doing this you're on the edge of destruction. Fights are often a way to break some of that tension that is constantly happening. It happens. Baseball and basketball are suppose to be non-contact sports. Hockey is a contact sport to the extreme. There is no possible way to remove fighting from hockey. Can they crack down on it? Sure. I don't see a day where it'll be eliminated.

Should they be held accountable for their actions yes. When they cross the line they most definitely should be held accountable. Roy clearly crossed the line. He should definitely be suspended. McSorley got what was coming to him. But to say that because you get in a fight on the ice, you're breaking societal normals, seems a bit ridiculous.

And I understand what you are saying, but I do have to bring up your last comment. I have no issue with fighting as long as there is consent between the people involved. In this case (which the vast majority of hockey fights are), it is just "part of the game". However, when you are sucker punched or tackled with no warning, that is assault. At least in my opinion.

[Long Beard]

And in most circumstances I'd agree. I think davidwirth makes a good point. Who draws that line? I think Roy overstepped his bounds (though the other goalie was foolish too). Who decides what's a fair fight and what isn't? Some are more clear than others.

To be fair....if you break hockey's unwritten code....most often you're WAY over the line.

[davidwirth]

Originally Posted by Long Beard

I think davidwirth makes a good point.

Wow!!! I am sure a lot of posters are going "Damn thats a first"

[Long Beard]

Wow....I just happened to run across this version of the fight. I don't speak French, but it's pretty clear what's going on here. Patrick Roy clearly instructs his son to go at the other goalie.

YouTube - Jonathan Roy, son of Patrick Ti Coune Roy + 2

[spymongoose]

peer pressure, honor, respect, all leading upto the violation of the code that is universally honored.

[Fridaddy]

Are rules that what, help or hinder the game? And as they are unwritten how do I know to follow the rule?

The only unwritten rule that matters, Hockey or Paintball, is honor.

In our sport, Paintball, we have rules against wiping. But we have no rule saying we need to point out cheater to the ref. But we do that because we have the idea of playing with honor and ask all other players to play that way to.

Now as far as professional sports. I gave up on it long ago. There is no sportsmanship in fighting because "the rules" say we need to. If I want to see a fight I will watch boxing, MMA, UFL or the like. I pay to see baseball, football or whatever...not a fight.

Start hitting these players in the pocketbook for un-sportsman like conduct and see just how fast it stops

[Moosepatrol]

Also don't forget people this isn't house league hockey. This is Junior hockey. one step up takes you into the N.H.L. We are not talking about just playing for fun, we are talking about young men fighting for million dollar contracts. When your coach tells you to do something at this level you are going to do it.

[spymongoose]

Originally Posted by Fridaddy

The only unwritten rule that matters, Hockey or Paintball, is honor.

Precisely my point. The one goalie "assaulted" the other out of honor. Its a different value system. He was the only person on his team not involved in the rumble, he would not be able to keep his honor if he didnt join in.

honor, respect, wheter you get it from a hockey team, a street gang, or from a loving family its something that we as humans need and to get it we often compromise our own principals.

[Daze]

Originally Posted by Meph

What was that goalie thinking? Roy's boy showed that he wanted to go down there and start a fight. Then when he finally makes his way down he's still just layin back arms stretched onto the net? That's like watching a guy slowly walk towards you with a knife yelling "I'm gonna stab you!" then when he finally gets close enough and does stab you you're both surprised and in a non-defensive stance.

But not defending yourself doesn't mean you automatically deserve what happens to you. Thinking that it does, even at this level, is a slippery slope towards "laws by, for, and enforced by the strongest."

Was it stupid to stand around and wait on an attacker? Yes, does it make him deserve the beating he got? Absolutely not.

[Walking_Target]

let's phrase this in a manner we can all relate to.

You walk on the paintball field, you expect to be shot, maybe even overshot considerably (and we have penalties in place for that)

You don't expect some goon to get in your face and start beating on you with a 98c


Just as in the game of hockey or football. you expect to be tackled, checked or so forth. There a penalties for behavior outside of the norm which is only supposed to cause harm. no matter what, if it's not furthering the point of the game, it's generally penalized. you can't just walk up and slug somebody in the middle of a football game for example.

That entire brawl was totally outside of the norm for hockey, it had nothing to do with the game, it was a bunch of over pumped muscle heads beating on eachother because one guy got pissed and everyone else had to get involved.

you can also claim that it's part of an 'unwritten code' but up here in canada we have a written 'criminal code' to deal with cases of plain assault such as this.