General

[Walking_Target]

Originally Posted by spymongoose

Precisely my point. The one goalie "assaulted" the other out of honor. Its a different value system. He was the only person on his team not involved in the rumble, he would not be able to keep his honor if he didnt join in.

honor, respect, wheter you get it from a hockey team, a street gang, or from a loving family its something that we as humans need and to get it we often compromise our own principals.

Prison rules like that have no place in civilized society.

[Christian Nelson]

How is it honorable to tell your son to fight someone who isn't wanting to fight back?

How is it honorable to haul off and punch someone just because others are doing it around you?

To me, this is DISHONORABLE actions..

Sorry, but I don't like your "code", and wouldn't play with people that adhered to it.

I like playing hockey, I don't like being pressured into fighting someone I am not very angry with who hasn't threatened my family or me, who is just playing a game against me.

You have some serious problem understanding that yes society DOES impose expectations even in a hockey arena.

I am sorry, but this is stupid.

Asinine.

Retarded Jock talk..

[CrazyBoy78]

Originally Posted by Christian Nelson

I am sorry, but this is stupid.

Asinine.

Retarded Jock talk..

Yep. But this is also where rational thought and instinct go two different ways. As was stated above, this wasn't a houseleague game, this was just a step under the big show.

Hockey is a very intense team sport. The fact that it's a very physical sport means that when guys play together at high levels, they work as one, not 5 guys on the ice. So when your best player gets cheapshotted, you let the other team know that they can't do that without repercurssions.

Is it a tit-for-tat, eye-for-an-eye mentality? Sure is. Think of it as a family. If someone from another family started something with yours, would you let it slide? Or would you take protective action?

Do some people go overboard? Unfortunately, yes. But you can find that in any major sport. Some people just want to win. That's it.

[spymongoose]

Originally Posted by Walking_Target

Prison rules like that have no place in civilized society.

True, but theres a reflection of our own culture as well as past cultures in this sport. Our society not only tolerates hockey violence, it feeds it and encourages it. Theres is what we think is the ideal form of society, then there is the real form of society that we actually live in, and those are two very seperate ideas.

The only thing in that video that I found to be shocking was the different actions of the 2 goalies, and from the comments of everyone here I dont think I'm alone. Both teams were rolling around, completely out of check, going on in a full on brawl. Nobody here seems to care about that, because thats mutual combat and therefore fair. What does that say about our society? What does that say about hockey and more importantly, peoples impression of hockey? Fair fighting is ignored while one unrecipricated assault raises red flags? Your ideal society WT doesnt condone the rest of the brawl, and the fans got what they came to see... a brawl on iceskates.

[Mar]

Well the verdict is in, Suspensions and fines all around, even for the coach Patrick Roy. The goalie was suspended for 7 games and fined $500.00

So: This behaviour seems to have been ruled to be over the line in terms of the rules of hockey, and what is typycally accepted versus what isn't.

I really liked reading all of the comments.

I am from Ottawa,and was playing hockey when I was four. I have been around hockey for a while and myself I find the actions criminal, ALTHOUGH not without precedent.

I agree that fighting is an integral part of hockey, with enforcers, heavyweights, light heavywieghts, respect for the skill players etc... All of this makes for an interesting game, and makes rivalries more exiting. However, in the above case I think a line was crossed. Punching once the guy is down doesn't have a place in the 'code'. I don't even have a huge problem with the initial attack on the goalie, moreover the strikes once he was down.

I think though, the most interesting part of this whole episode is how we as Canadians have excluded 'criminal' behaviour from prosecution (in general) due to it's close proximity to our national identifier and pastime, Hockey.

If I was still in school I think this would be a riveting subject (for Canadians at least) to write a dissertation on....

I think also, the charges laid inthe Mcsorley case are worthy of discussion as well.

IS the difference between acceptable and not acceptable related to the damage done, or the actual infraction? How much so? Bertuzzi's one career ending punch netted him one of the stiffest suspensions in NHL history, if Moore had been only dazed, what would the end result have been?

ANyone who wants to see a real goalie throw some fisticuffs, watch my boy 'Rayzr' Ray Emery first dispatch useless tit Marty Biron then have to deal with Buffalo heavyweight enforcer Andrew Peters in the same shift: Pay close attention to the announcers decrying the attack on a goalie by an enforcer.

YouTube - Ray Emery vs Marty Biron Plus Line Brawl

[Long Beard]

Originally Posted by Christian Nelson

How is it honorable to tell your son to fight someone who isn't wanting to fight back?

How is it honorable to haul off and punch someone just because others are doing it around you?

To me, this is DISHONORABLE actions..

Sorry, but I don't like your "code", and wouldn't play with people that adhered to it.

I think that "the code" is being mis-understood a bit here. It is not honorable to TELL your son to go get in a fight. I'm pretty sure I've already state that the goalies didn't need to fight. Part of the team mentality though is standing up for your team mates. They didn't have to fight.

The code was broken. That's the point here.

Also, the code is something that is learned growing up through the system of hockey. By the time you're the age of these kids it's understood. So you can't pass their actions on "not knowing the code". They know what's up.

[davidwirth]

Originally Posted by Mar

Well the verdict is in, Suspensions and fines all around, even for the coach Patrick Roy. The goalie was suspended for 7 games and fined $500.00

Good, that is what needed to happen. Maybe a stiffer fine on the coach? If you hit the coach hard enough in the wallet, he will have his players under more control. Criminal no, not in my book because as I stated before about the other sports. in terms of paintball, I fully expect to be "lite up" on the field, I do not on the other hand enter the field with expections of being hit with frozen paint, or ball bearings. Never played hockey, but if I did, knowing what I know from watching TV, and movies like the Cutting Edge, I would fully expect to get blind sided and into fights. Again, if someone comes and takes a swing at me and I got a stick, I am going to use it.

What would have happened if the the goalie who was just standing there, instead ducked after being swung at and came up and just pounded the other goalie? My mentality is if I am out there playing, and I didn't start the fight and someone comes up and tries to take me out like that, they would have to pull me of the punk as I would be sitting on his chest slamming his head into the ice. oh the blood, well the Zamboni will clean it up right?

[HurtCow]

I was watching the video Mar posted. As an American that never watches hockey, I found it interesting how the announcers casually transition from announcing the hockey game to describing the individual fights on the ice, boxing-style...'*****'s got **** down, and he's throwing punches to his chest...**** has to get free so he can fight back...now over here *** has just thrown a good right hook into **...

[Long Beard]

Now that's a quality announcer! Hockey and boxing without taking a breath.

[Railgun]

Originally Posted by Eli

I know fighting is an integral and sometimes necessary part of hockey culture;....

No it isn't. There is nothing necessary about the fighting at all. The fighting is a sad comment on selling the sport. Fans love the fights it seems. I don't watch hockey but I hear as much or more about the fights from the fans at work than I do about the plays that led to scoring. So what does that tell us? The owners and league officials don't want to stop the fighting because it'll cut down on filling the stands and the price they get from the networks.

But make no mistake about it. If you Upgraded the penalties for fighting to something that actually means something then the fighting would stop. First time and you're out of the game. Second time in a season and you're out for the season. THAT would stop the fighting or decimate the teams. Especially if the teams are not allowed to carry extra players so that some "hitters" can be used in an expendable manner.

BUt the fans like the Rollerball aspect too much for the officials to actually do anything about it that is actually meaningful.