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Old 04-28-2008, 02:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The problem of trying to incorporate any intellegent design into public schools is it would be supporting one religious viewpoint. As ugly as these discussions can get around here, do you really want to interject that into schools too. It is really simple keep the religious instruction at church/Sunday school and or home, not in public schools.

True the theory of Evolution is just that, but there is a whole lot of hard evidence supporting it. On top of that, it is constantly getting tested and changed when something gets proved otherwise. If the creationist viewpoint is injected in to normal scientific instruction, at what point do we stop do we draw the the line, when all they can answer is "I believe", to a question. One can state their beliefs on any subject but that does not make them provable. One can be both religious and scientific as long as they don't try to mix the two.
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Old 04-28-2008, 02:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Why can't we teach it all in schools and just put the disclaimer before hand that none of us really "knows" what the truth is?
Oh right, human ego.
Nevermind that idea. I guess we get to keep fighting over stupid insignificant BS for the rest of our existence instead of figuring out cold fusion and pizza teleporters.
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Old 04-28-2008, 02:48 PM   #13 (permalink)
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true enough CC,

It is true though, there is no supporting evidence for Intelligent Design, whereas i can head over to the ROM and see, with my own two eyes, evidence from the fossil record that supports the Theory of Evolution.
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Old 04-28-2008, 02:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Nevermind that idea. I guess we get to keep fighting over stupid insignificant BS for the rest of our existence instead of figuring out cold fusion and pizza teleporters.
It has already been figured out by the Gnomes and Trolls. All we have to do is catch the little bastards and make them do it for us.
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:16 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I think all that Stein wants to get across is that if you have a dissenting point of view, you are shunned, you don't get grants, and are run out of the scientific community.

Stein brings up the fact about intelligent design (for lack of a better word), not in the meaning that the world was created in 7 days or whatever, or that the world is only 50 years old per the bible or something.

No offense to the religious types, I just know nothing about that stuff, and some people mis-interpret the intelligent design as just that.

Stein uses it to help answer the question: "Where did it come from?"

I'm a science person myself, but it IS an amazing question that you can not answer, and it's that argument and point of view that we can not shun. And I feel that's what the movie is about. (Again, from only what I've read).

Where did it come from?

The earth was created by dust particles and blah blah blah.

But where did it come from?

The big bang

But where did it come from?

You keep asking that question, and you get to the point of... it HAD to be created. Maybe not by a whom, or what, or how, or... we have no idea how that first whatever was created and where it came from.

To me, that's a HUGE and awesome philosophical question for both science and religion. I mean... Science could potentially prove religion right?

Anyhow, know nothing of the movie, doubt I'll make my way out to go see it. But it just seems to me that too many people get caught up in the semantics and the really cool questions get lost and never answered or debated.
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:24 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I think all that Stein wants to get across is that if you have a dissenting point of view, you are shunned, you don't get grants, and are run out of the scientific community.
i disagree.


they are being shunned becuase they are not practicing science. no reason to fund scientists who dont do science.

makes perfect sense to me.
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Scientists have a community?? whats the url?

None of this really matters anymore. For every "scientist" that says one thing, you have another 10 to disagree. And in all actuality it has been going on forever. At least now they only get shunned and not killed.

The problem is who is funding education and who is being allowed to design course work.

I remember in undergrad they changed the rate of gravity so we wouldn't have to use calculators. Seriously WTF!?!?! over?
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:38 PM   #18 (permalink)
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9.8 meters per second per second

of course, that is negating any resistance through the atmosphere and assuming 'sea level' values rather than a couple hundered kilometers up.
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
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they are being shunned becuase they are not practicing science. no reason to fund scientists who dont do science.
Unfortunetly, this is not a perfect world.

MANY parts of our human understanding are debated, and not fully understood. The science funding process is largely controlled by left-wing groups. No surprise there, just like mutual funds are largely controlled by right-wing groups.

And the bottom line is that there are conflicting theories, and conflicting hypothesis. People tend to think that science only deals with facts, and this is very, very far from the truth. Usually, the facts are never known, but only implied, and you have to pick sides based ony our believes, as well as funding.

The examples I used before clearly show this: Global Warming, and Eugenics. Both were considered "science", even though both lacked any evidence. Scientists were refused funding, and outcast if they didn't follow the herd.

In short, the funding/grant process for scientific research is extremely corrupt. It RARELY is designed to prove theories, but instead usually to back agendas. that is simply a fact of the world we live in.
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:50 PM   #20 (permalink)
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i disagree.


they are being shunned becuase they are not practicing science. no reason to fund scientists who dont do science.

makes perfect sense to me.
That's exactly the attitude Ben Stein addresses in Expelled. I saw it a couple weeks ago and was thoroughly impressed. Painthappy hit it right on the head when he said the movie is simply about a hidden "wall" between the science community and intelligent design.

Last time I checked, science is exploring every viable idea, not just the ideas uniformly accepted.

-Dan
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