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Old 05-10-2008, 08:29 PM   #291 (permalink)
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It's the same old argument with the same players and same theories. Not playing. There is no way anyone will convince me that I came from a Chimp. And if they want to believe that they do, that is well and good, let them. If they don't believe in God that is fine too. We will know for sure when we die if there is an afterlife and will have to answer to a higher authority for what we did on earth. If I am wrong, what happens? Nothing because I actually cease to exist. What happens if they are wrong? (gonna burn in hell?) The whole reason behind darwinism to smooth their own fears about morals. If there isn't a higher power, they can do whatever they want with no reprucusions. The Brittish Empire used Darwinism to justify their colonialism that the White Europeans where the highest on the Darwinian chain. Hitler took it one step further and used Darwinism to justify his extermination of what he thought were the inferior races. With Darwinism we can abandon all morals and rules and just chalk it up to survival of the fittist. Just look at Survivor, out play out last out lie. The reason people with morals and who stick to them, don't win is because those who don't play by morals and right and wrong will always win.
well since the oprgin of species does not say that we came form chimps - i guess we all win?
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Old 05-10-2008, 08:40 PM   #292 (permalink)
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I'm wondering if the supernatural will ever be measurable as well. When it is, we'll have to rethink physics...again...although one could argue that we'll have to rethink physics to make it measurable in the first place. Here's a philosophical thought to mull over: if/when the supernatural becomes directly measurable/detectable, does it then simply become natural?
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Old 05-10-2008, 08:41 PM   #293 (permalink)
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Here's a philosophical thought to mull over: if/when the supernatural becomes directly measurable/detectable, does it then simply become natural?
yes
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Old 05-10-2008, 08:45 PM   #294 (permalink)
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David:

I thought you said you were not playing.


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just stating the reasons why I am not playing?
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Old 05-10-2008, 10:33 PM   #295 (permalink)
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I'm wondering if the supernatural will ever be measurable as well. When it is, we'll have to rethink physics...again...although one could argue that we'll have to rethink physics to make it measurable in the first place. Here's a philosophical thought to mull over: if/when the supernatural becomes directly measurable/detectable, does it then simply become natural?
Now you're thinking.

If the so called "supernatural" is just something natural, that as of yet, we simply don't understand, would we really need to "rethink" physics?

I don't like the dichotomy of thinking that the use of supernatural and natural implies. This is confusion. I would rather view everything as natural. Some of which we understand, and some we don't..........yet.

If we are going to attempt to try and understand what lies beyond the point that all past histories intersect, then we are going to have to put "faith" in conclusions that defy all reason within our 1/2 dimension, omnidirectional time, space, matter and energy. Hawking has been troubled by this question for years. Can we trust our own conclusions when we ourselves are subjects within it's rules? Can a sub-set define the whole-set?

It would appear that there are many scientists that believe that there could be "something" that is beyond our cosmos. There are lots of mathematical models being worked on around the country. Ways in which to validate these findings will need to be found. How can they be tested.

One of the most important questions to me is what, if any, influence does that which exists beyond our universe have on us? How can we quantify these into concepts, machine language if you will, that works in our universe and it's operating system? We are fairly good at understanding the major players in our own 4 dimensional universe, but everyone agrees that they do not give us all the answers to all that's going on, and this can be observed.

Yes, we may need to rethink physics.......or perhaps these "ways are past finding out."
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Old 05-11-2008, 10:05 AM   #296 (permalink)
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What we should not do is let our beliefs guide our truths - we should let our truths guide our beliefs - most religious believers do not do so.

I have always thought the definition of supernatural made no sense - if it exists - it exists. If it exists in a way that we cannot accurately measure yet - it is our epistemological limitation - not some sort of new category of existence.

Diomedes,

Great post. I am not saying physics needs to be rethought - it may not. The physical may be all there is - I am tending to believe that is the case. But I see certain things that honest scientists scratch their collective heads about and I wonder about the limitations of Empirical evidence.

I love Hawking for what Thykle is mentioning. He flip flops a lot on his beliefs - but at least he is honest and takes it VERY seriously.

I honestly wish that the religious community would allow themselves to wonder again. They seem to kill their living Gods by having him all figured out.

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Old 05-11-2008, 02:26 PM   #297 (permalink)
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Science changes - on a fairly regular basis...as we gain more knowledge, do more experiments, observe different results, the theories have changed, or new theories have been added.

When was the last time Religion changed or allowed change? You either believe or you don't - doesn't seem to be a lot of room for doubters. Back in the day, those types of people were burned at the stake or worse.

So, I ask again - which one (religion or science) is actually stiffling creativity and new ideas?
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Old 05-11-2008, 04:20 PM   #298 (permalink)
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Ideas and enforced/believed Ideas are stiffling other ideas.. science, usually is based on scientific calculations.. so I think it is less stiffling than religion, which is altered and created simply by people.. or god, which ever came first..

but then again, everyone is biased one way or the other.. and I tend to be a doubter..
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