Fake guns - Page 2

Christian Nelson · 05-04-2008, 11:04 AM

It shouldn't matter if no one is brandishing it threateningly.

If they are, well then treat it as though they were threatening with a real one. Simple as that.

John Satclaire · 05-05-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

"One of the imitation weapons I got at a convenience store looked very much like the assault weapons that the secret service and other FBI agents carry under their suits,"

Wow. They must be wearing untailored Brooks Brothers sack suits--I can barely conceal a H&K P7 under my suit!

Christian Nelson · 05-05-2008, 10:26 AM

That's just 'cause every Secret service dude has an unlimited bag of holding sewn into their suit ya know..

Don't ya know anything?

WilD · 05-05-2008, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian Nelson

I think people just need to stop being so overly hysterical when they see a gun, real or not.

I actually agree with CN on this one. The root cause of many of these problems is that people are idiots and totally freak out at the sight of a firearm, or what they perceive as a firearm. It is amazing how much society has changed in as little as twenty years.

Listen folks, if you are terrified of guns, it is not the gun or gun wielders fault. You do not need to pee your pants nor call the police. Grow up, shut up, or get therapy for your emotional problems.

nunrleft · 05-05-2008, 11:31 AM

While I agree that these laws would not be needed if parents would educate their children or if society, in general, would think differently, I don't see a problem with these laws. The fact is alot of parents do not educate their children and in general society is freaked out by known presence of firearms.

It's common sense that a person should not have something that looks similar to a firearm laying in their car. It's common sense that they should not walk around in public (not at a paintball field) with something that looks like a firearm. I live in a very populated portion of St Paul, MN. I don't take any of my markers even into my yard for fear that a SWAT team would show up. I handle them as I would any real firearm. Cased and unloaded during transport, and locked in the trunk.

But, not everyone possesses the common sense we seem to have here. So these laws are basically designed to keep the stupid people safe. Pretty much what most laws are designed to do.

WilD · 05-05-2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunrleft

It's common sense that a person should not have something that looks similar to a firearm laying in their car. It's common sense that they should not walk around in public (not at a paintball field) with something that looks like a firearm.

Those are both false statements. While it is inadviseable to keep a firearm in plain sight, there are circumstances in which it happens, legally. I'm not going into the details of all of the scenarios but I don't believe there should be such a huge double standard in which something that is perfectly acceptable in say, a rural setting causes a panic in an urban or sub-urban setting.

It should be acceptable to clean and oil your rifle on your porch if the weather is nice no matter where you live without bringing WWIII down on your head. I do not think it is acceptable that gun owners need to hide from the other segment of society.

Christian Nelson · 05-05-2008, 11:55 AM

Unfortunately, you cannot outlaw stupid, instead you make stupid laws that someone will always figure out a ways to be stupid enough to cause the need for another stupid law.

Maybe if we let cops blow away threats with a bit less grief, at the very least these types might get culled from the herd?

I'm actually thinking that if this law simply stated that if you brandish and threaten with a fake gun, we will treat it as though you had used a real one, that makes sense. To me the key point is the threatening behaviour. People shouldn't be hassled or worry abotu someone carrying a gun, but to threaten someone, then even if it isn't a gun, they should get a bigger punishment than is currently meeted out.

WilD · 05-05-2008, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian Nelson

Maybe if we let cops blow away threats with a bit less grief, at the very least these types might get culled from the herd?

Here I will disagree with you. The logical answer (if protecting children with fake guns is the goal) is harsher penanlties for cops that screw up.

Commiting roberies and and actually threatening people is already illegal, so no need for new laws there. Also, in order to threaten someone, the threatening individual should actually make a credible threat. Just becuase someone enters your field of view and you don't like something you see (like a gun), doesn't make you a victim.

Christian Nelson · 05-05-2008, 12:22 PM

Well, I was meaning some dope stupid enough to rob a place with a toy gun because it is less of a punishment than if he used a real one could maybe get culled with less trouble from the populace, not someone just walking around.

The underlying issue is two fold, some people when they get a gun, or gun looking thing in thier hands get a power trip and start feeling like a god. The fact that society craps their pants and does whatever asked when someone waves a gun-like thing at them is the other half. Naturally, when you impose harsh and severe punishments for really using a firearm in crime, they will try to make fake ones look real. They get the same effect, and not as much punishment when they get caught.

Then cops have to walk on egg shells when a perp has what looks like a gun in ther hand, I say shoot the guy, and people shouldnt have a problem with it.

Now if a guy is minding his own business with his gun, cleaning it on the porch on a nice day (perfect example of a plausable scenario) people should indeed not panic, and a cop should not draw down on the dude unless he's clearly behaving in a threatening manner, or just got done robbing a bank or something.

Azzy · 05-05-2008, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilD

I actually agree with CN on this one. The root cause of many of these problems is that people are idiots and totally freak out at the sight of a firearm, or what they perceive as a firearm. It is amazing how much society has changed in as little as twenty years.

Listen folks, if you are terrified of guns, it is not the gun or gun wielders fault. You do not need to pee your pants nor call the police. Grow up, shut up, or get therapy for your emotional problems.

Well, the news and the anti-gun people have culled a nice herd of sheep these days, what do you expect?

05-04-2008, 11:04 AM	#11 (permalink)
Christian Nelson MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,369	It shouldn't matter if no one is brandishing it threateningly. If they are, well then treat it as though they were threatening with a real one. Simple as that. __________________ The greatest want of the world is the want of men- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by it's right name, men who's concience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.

05-05-2008, 10:26 AM	#13 (permalink)
Christian Nelson MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,369	That's just 'cause every Secret service dude has an unlimited bag of holding sewn into their suit ya know.. Don't ya know anything? __________________ The greatest want of the world is the want of men- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by it's right name, men who's concience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.

05-05-2008, 11:31 AM	#15 (permalink)
nunrleft MCB Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 447	While I agree that these laws would not be needed if parents would educate their children or if society, in general, would think differently, I don't see a problem with these laws. The fact is alot of parents do not educate their children and in general society is freaked out by known presence of firearms. It's common sense that a person should not have something that looks similar to a firearm laying in their car. It's common sense that they should not walk around in public (not at a paintball field) with something that looks like a firearm. I live in a very populated portion of St Paul, MN. I don't take any of my markers even into my yard for fear that a SWAT team would show up. I handle them as I would any real firearm. Cased and unloaded during transport, and locked in the trunk. But, not everyone possesses the common sense we seem to have here. So these laws are basically designed to keep the stupid people safe. Pretty much what most laws are designed to do. __________________

05-05-2008, 11:55 AM	#17 (permalink)
Christian Nelson MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,369	Unfortunately, you cannot outlaw stupid, instead you make stupid laws that someone will always figure out a ways to be stupid enough to cause the need for another stupid law. Maybe if we let cops blow away threats with a bit less grief, at the very least these types might get culled from the herd? I'm actually thinking that if this law simply stated that if you brandish and threaten with a fake gun, we will treat it as though you had used a real one, that makes sense. To me the key point is the threatening behaviour. People shouldn't be hassled or worry abotu someone carrying a gun, but to threaten someone, then even if it isn't a gun, they should get a bigger punishment than is currently meeted out. __________________ The greatest want of the world is the want of men- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by it's right name, men who's concience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.

05-05-2008, 12:22 PM	#19 (permalink)
Christian Nelson MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,369	Well, I was meaning some dope stupid enough to rob a place with a toy gun because it is less of a punishment than if he used a real one could maybe get culled with less trouble from the populace, not someone just walking around. The underlying issue is two fold, some people when they get a gun, or gun looking thing in thier hands get a power trip and start feeling like a god. The fact that society craps their pants and does whatever asked when someone waves a gun-like thing at them is the other half. Naturally, when you impose harsh and severe punishments for really using a firearm in crime, they will try to make fake ones look real. They get the same effect, and not as much punishment when they get caught. Then cops have to walk on egg shells when a perp has what looks like a gun in ther hand, I say shoot the guy, and people shouldnt have a problem with it. Now if a guy is minding his own business with his gun, cleaning it on the porch on a nice day (perfect example of a plausable scenario) people should indeed not panic, and a cop should not draw down on the dude unless he's clearly behaving in a threatening manner, or just got done robbing a bank or something. __________________ The greatest want of the world is the want of men- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by it's right name, men who's concience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.