General

[Al Ray]

I havent seen anything thus far that truely out of line if read from the sidelines.

Race is a funny thing. I am reminded of the words of a paintballer dressed as a twenkie at Castle 23. He was an asian looking fellow and was asked by a man with a camera why he was dressed as twenkie, to which he responded, and I quote " Well my father was white and my mom's asian so I figured Id dress like somthing that represents me, yellow on the outside, white in the middle" The man man with the camera respond with a laugh "Okay we cant use that!"

Yes this story was brought to mind becase of the asian context of this disscusion, but you have to ask yourslef, what color is WT, what color is drg. (do you know?, I dont) Then you have to ask yourself why should it matter. (heck just assume everyone here is the same race/color as you (not talking to heebs in specific) and you'll see whats been said hasnt crossed the line) I have yet to meet an outright racist person on MCB. with that in mind this disscution should go on. We all just need to keep it civil.

[DeTrevni]

Heebs, as a Korean, you say you were not offended. If I may revert to my proposed argument, why were you not offended? Taken literally, I said I disliked Asians because they are better, or as you put it, because there happens to a Korean prodigy. As stated, I was hoping such a comment could in no way be taken literally, thus could not be offensive. Is this why you were unoffended?

And drg, may I ask what race you are? I'm not trying to call you out, I'm just curious. These days, more often than not (once again, this is out of personal experience, and not universal rule), it is the white people, or the "majority," that get offended when a joke or a jab is made at a particular race, not the targeted race. Is this relative towards an argument? Maybe, maybe not. I'm just trying discover motivation.

Once again, I admit my comment was stereotypical, and by definition racist. But I would like to honestly know, in retrospect and honesty, was it really a comment worth getting offended about?

If the mods feel this thread should be locked, by all means, do so. I am not trying to stir the hornets' nest, I just honestly feel the more we discuss controversial subjects, the more secure in ourselevs we become. If we were all just secure in ourselves, I honestly believe this whole situation could have been averted. This is why I asked drg his race. Was he offended directly, or was he offended because he was worried my comments may offend the targeted race?

[Heebs]

I wasn't offended because I knew it was a joke. Some people wont/dont see it that way. You need to be careful how you come across on a board because there is zero ability to know what true motivation you had behind a post.

The purpose of the post was to show off this guitar prodigy, not to poke at Asians. For that I have no problem. But liberal use of racist remarks regardless of non malicious intentions will begin to torque me off, whether they are Asian specific or not.

For the record, my dad is a Canuck, my mom is American and I have an American sister.

[DeTrevni]

Well, that is understandable, and as it is, I can only offer my word that I didn't truly mean it. And I don't gratuitously toss around racial jokes. BUT, as this is a web forum, there is no way to prove this, so I see your point. I was offering a justification to my stance on the issue.

Thanks.

[agentSmith]

To grab onto Party of A-5's statement,
stereotypes are often based on 'some' fact that almost always turns out to be either purposely erroneous or otherwise NOT true for the majority of the group in question.
'Because I know a dude that was from X that did Y' is not science or even a good rule of thumb. It just doesn't work nearly as well as judging an individual based on a first impression and even those are often wrong.

Plus the fact that when it does let us down, when we are surprised by someone who doesn't fit their 'harmless' stereotype, we SEEM racist to them very often.

For that reason alone I would try to shun even harmless seeming stereotypes because people will think(logically!)that you subscribe to many other stereotypes you're not sharing.
As Heebs said

liberal use of racist remarks regardless of non malicious intentions will begin to torque me off

For instance the experience with South Koreans that americans have had is based on how individual South Koreans acted around individual AMERICANS of completely unidentified character or intelligence, not anything else. So if I make generalizations of ANY kind based on those experiences with South Koreans I'm almost certain to be wrong.

My very wise Grandfather said, "Getting to know someone is like walking up to a house in the middle of the night and looking through a window into just one room. You might learn that room so well that you could walk around it in the dark with the lights off, but it's a mistake to assume it tells you ANYTHING about the rest of the house."

I hope I didn't lose any of my fellow Yoopers, as that was a little oblique .

I'll try it this way, Ted Bundy's neighbors lived next to him for a LONG time and didn't know what a psycho he was, so it seems a little egotistical to think one can nail down an entire group on ANY topic based on second hand info or personal experience.


Rob

[xkpxfatassxx]

As a full Korean myself, I really don't care if people hate me or not. If they hate, then let them hate. You meant no harm in your joke, but some may take it seriously some may not. I was not there at that time so I have no say for it. Though the mocking of Koreans in the astronaut thread was uncalled for.

[Walking_Target]

Well, thanks everybody for taking what i have said out of context.

So, you can call me ignorant or racist if you want; I know that i am not, I know that my friends of different nationalities, skin colors, and religions know i'm not.

If you don't like me because i acknowledge the fact that certain areas of the world and certain nationalities are well known for some traits, rightfully or not, then fine. I'll continue to be the dumb, polite, beer swilling hockey nut.

I personally believe that stereotypes have no place in the modern world, but it's good to see that someone can get eveyone's panties in a twist with one offhanded comment that meant no harm.

[Al Ray]

I think people are starting to get the picture. "Race" is only an issue in the context of "race", even though there are truely some racist out there. Coat of many colors, my friends.

[drg]

Originally Posted by Walking_Target

Well, thanks everybody for taking what i have said out of context.

It's not that your comments are being taken out of context, it's that your comment was out of context.

[agentSmith]

I don't know, I've gotten some fairly amped reactions from your fellow countrymen when I blithely assume they like hockey, WT.
A better example might be that all canadians are Anti-Gun, Pro-weed. While these are not particularly onerous stereotypes, you WILL get a reaction if you go dropping them on random canadians and rightly so.
Much better to avoid stereotyping completely as it serves NO useful purpose other than forumfodder.

That's the point I was trying to get to. It isn't useful for predicting behavior and is certain, sooner or later, to offend someone, so why keep doing it? I guess if you really enjoy it, then it will require a lot of skill to never cross the line.

Rob