General

[incynr8]

I've started this thread for those here who may share interest in sustainable farming in small scale operations, from your backyard garden to 15 acres of subscription farm and orchard you may have....

All are welcome to discuss utilization of the land in a responsible way to provide for yourselves, families, or even local communities in a non-profit to profit making scales.

This has been an interest of mine for years, often astonished how even a few raised beds in a french intensive style planting can feed a household or two with little land used.

Now that a Tomato is 3 bucks........Perhaps it's time to reconsider further?

So Green Thumbs...Who here likes to garden at any scale?










Myself, I spent a few seasons over the years in college and right afterward working a 100 acre organic farm, gourmet mushroom production, and subscription farming on a 3 acre microfarm (which actually was the most profitable business model of the three, due to costs vs land utlization vs labor).

I've spend some time with Rodale and some of the Penn State offices (not all of it is Chemical land).

Now I am in an urban/suburban environment, with simply just the backyard, for now at least.........

[RealtorTommy]

I plant above ground...my family built several large enclosures covered in chichen wire. I use metal duct work supported off the ground using pressure treated 4x4's....The bottom of the metal duct work is about two feet off the ground....No bending to tend the the gardening....We have a seperate compost pile where food scraps are thrown on top off....We transplant what sprouts from the compost to the garden also. Watering is less because of the planters..If planted like a garden...the surrounding soil would absorb the excess water.

[Christian Nelson]

I've been wanting to do this myself. I have 15 acres, with about 10 of it rented out to pasture and cropland by a local farmer. I asked him not to spray stuff on it, in case I evr want to get into the organic thing.

My wife does a small garden each year. We usually can a bunch of stuff. I've actually thought of doing the whole green house ting so I could have stuff int he winter, but you gotta heat those around here, and that costs money on an un-insulated building.

Most of the stuff I have had ideas to do, I can't because normal stuff around the house breaks, and I have to fix it, and then the car breaks, and I have to fix that, and then when I have that under control, and have any extra time or money to devote to something like this, I suddenly find out my tax bill has gone up, and I now have to fill out a bunch of forms about what sort of liestock I have on my land, and I have to fill out some othe rmandatory form about who knows what, and of course it takes me hours to figure out how to fill it all out, and I am afraid to make any mistakes because it says all over the form that I could to 10 years in prison if anything is wrong, and etcetera ad nauseum.

I've been wanting to put in solar heaing systems in my house, and out buildings, and the cots wouldn't be that great if I had time and money to do it all in. UNfort, I think I have very little of either anymore. Local gove keeps telling me I have to pay for thier unfunded mandates. Well, who pays for MY unfunded mandates?

This to me is the biggest hurdle for the small farmer these days. Red tape, taxation, and no time left after all of the haranging you have to do with the local ag office.

God forbid if I ever thought of actually making an income on my land what I'd have to do then!

[incynr8]

even if he sprays, after 3 years of 'clean' you can still get organic cert.


coal if available to your area is often cheapest now..........

check into making a solar batch heater, a bit ugly, but way cheaper than a fancy solar rig, however scary in winter......


RT, interesting rig, so you are using essentially culvert Halves on stands?

[Schmitti]

We've got about 120 sf of raised bed at this point. The beds are made using 3/4"x8" (which is really a 7.5" board) cedar boards that are pinned with 2' long sections of #3 (3/8") rebar. Deep beds were made using two boards stacked and I used rebar ties and doubled the pins (one on either side of the board) to provide additional support. All the soil is organic from the bag (I couldn't find a good source for "black dirt" tha tdidn't have seeds or junk in it).

1st section is 5'x10' and is shallow, approximately 6" of soil. We are growing lettuce and peas right now. Once it gets a little warmer we are going to plant cucumbers and squash.

2nd section is 40 sf and is deep with about 10-11" of soil. This currently has 11 tomato plants in it and will be getting carrot seeds in a couple weeks. For the tomatos we use ladders which allows us to keep the plants relatively close together:
Green Tomato Ladders, Tomato Supports buy Gardener's Supply

The last section is approximately 28 sf and is about 6" of soil. We currently have it growing brocolli and a section for stawberries. There is additional room in this section I just don't know what is going to go there.

In addition to the raised beds we have large pots that we plant eggplant and additional tomatoes in and this year we are going to try some hanging tomato baskets:
Revolution Planter buy our Upside Down Tomato Planter Gardener's Supply

I'm going to have to build some kind of enclosure around the tomatos this year as the squirrels ate about half hour tomatos last year...actually what they did was pull a tomato taka couple bites, decide they thought it tasted like crap and then leave it on the driveway So I'll be doing a little extra work to save the crop this year.

I'm hoping to try some black berries or raspberries along the fence, but it may be too wet and not get enough sunlight.

Next year I'm sure that I will put in at least one other bed that is 10'x4'.

We also use cedar boxes that are about 12" deep and maybe 6" by 24" that we use for herbs: basil, thyme, oregano. Last year we had two different kinds of basil and two different kinds of thyme (one was "normal" and the other was lemon thyme).

Our biggest problem with creating more garden space is shade. The two trees over the garage put most of the backyard in shade. The trees are going to have to come down at some point as they are pushing on the garage... I just have to talk to all the neighbors as the trees are on property lines. Once that happens we can grow more. Also, once I rebuild/re-support the porch overhang we will be able to put a small garden (tomatoes in pots) above it that we can access from the bathroom window. We should be able to put at least 4 large pots up there and still be able to have space to access the plants to pick the tomatoes.

E

[Christian Nelson]

those hanging tomato plants in the bag with holes in it, are pretty nice, you just hang them in the porch, water them occasionally, and they grow tomatoes. I love cherry tomatos, and I had alot of them form just one of those plants.

If you don't mind my asking, what is the reason for the raised bed garden, rather than simply tilling your topsoil 10" deep?

We have a compost barrel, basicly a barrel with holes punched i it and the bottom and top gone, and you thourw your compost in there, and when it gets about half full, you move it around, then that spring, you take the rotottiller, or hoe and shovel if you like manual labor, and turn it all over into your garden. I am lazy, so I just move the compost barrel around on the spot where the garden goes. I also have plenty of horse and cattle manure I can work with, some of it at my dad's place has tunred into that nice black stuff you buy at the store for a fortune..

I could get a few wheel barrows full of it.

My biggest problem with gardening, is weeding. I absolutely hate weeding.

I hear there's actually people who will buy stinging nettle, speaking of weeds. Is this true? I have a huge "crop" of those every year.

I though about augmenting my wood heater with coal when I was using an outside wood boiler. I kept comming home to a cold house, because the wood woudln't last 12 hours that I was gone on a really cold day. Then it would take a couple of days to get up and ahead of the cold. So I installed a propane boiler I found for $50 and ended up selling the wood boiler.

$2000 was hard to turn down, when I needed the money, and didn't see myself using it anytime soon. Now I think I could use it for the greenhouse type of stuff.

[Mar]

You know CN, I thought Raised Bed gardening would have just been better for your back, but here is what I took when I peeked now at Wiki, good question:

Raised bed gardening is a form of gardening in which the soil is formed in 3–4 foot (1.0–1.2 m) wide beds, which can be of any length. The soil is about 0.5–1 foot (15–30 cm) above the surrounding soil, sometimes enclosed by a frame generally made of wood or concrete blocks, and enriched with compost made from leaves and grass clippings. The vegetable plants are spaced in geometric patterns, much closer together than conventional row gardening. The spacing is such that when the vegetables are fully grown, their leaves just barely touch each other, creating a microclimate in which moisture is conserved and weed growth suppressed. Raised beds produce a variety of benefits: they extend the planting season; they reduce the need to use poor native soil; and they can reduce weeds if designed properly. Since the gardener does not walk on the raised beds, the soil is not compacted and the roots have an easier time growing. The close plant spacing and the use of compost generally result in higher yields with raised beds in comparison to conventional row gardening.

My wife and I are picking up some stuff this week to begin growing our own herbs and some vegetables... can't wait to move to the country though....

[Schmitti]

CN - We use raised beds because our "native" soil is crap. It's a sandy silt clay. It drains poorly and has no real nutrients (topsoil) past the first 2 inches or so. Also augmenting soil, especially a silty clay doesn't give a you a real net benefit. You still end up with relatively crappy soil that will not drain well and which will eventually settle into a tight silt clay matrix which is crappy for the fine roots that vegetable plants have.

I'm sure incynr8 has very similar soil being in a semi urban environment in PA. The topsoil was probably stripped off when the house was constructed and the underlying sitly clay was just giving a "generous" sprinkle of topsoil so that grass would grow. Just about any one living in a suburban area will run into this problem on the East coast.

E

[Azzy]

Mar, that sig isnt funny, you know...

Anyhow...

Ive already planted an herb garden and will be putting up teh deer netting this week. We also have a few pots of different items, mung beans (for sprouts), pineapple, and some tomatoes. Heather is planning on doing some canning of the garden stuff, and we have thought about doing the raised bed thing, but it sure does seem like a good deal of investment.

edit-

I see the reason for raised beds. out here, everywhere is farmland, our house used to be a farmhouse at one point. Soil grows stuff very peachy.

[Mar]

Originally Posted by Azzy

Mar, that sig isnt funny, you know...

.

Good lord Azzy! It took like two weeks for you to notice! I was beginning to think you were ignoring me! I will change it, I thought you would at least get a kick out of it, or at least a little laugh….