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Old 06-12-2008, 12:04 PM   #21 (permalink)
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How do you stop a company that drills oil out of public land, or private land, fo r that matter, from selling to whomever they want?
With public land, it's pretty easy: you build a term into the contract or law that lets them drill on public land, saying to whom they may sell any oil pumped from that land. Of course, if the downstream parties in the gas production chain aren't bound by that term, you pass a law that says "the following products X, if derived from oil pumped from U.S. public lands Y, may only not be exported." Try selling your ITT Gen. 3+ scope outside the U.S., for example.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:26 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:34 PM   #23 (permalink)
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How the rest of the world take to such protectionism when we already consume 25% of the world's oil.

Also, let's say we drill in ANWR and other places, and the price of a gallon of gas goes down... a relatively insignificant amount for a time. What's plan B?

If it's electricity from nuclear power shouldn't be converting our transportation fleet 10 years ago, when it was affordable to do so?

Also, will our huge airline industry be able to convert to electric jet engines?
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:49 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Saying this gas crisis is going to speed up alternative fuel programs is like trying to draw blood from a turnip......ain't going to happen.

This is when idealism refuses to see that it's hit a brick wall and that reality isn't budging. The problem is finding a more economicly viable source of fuel that has as much potential energy per unit volume for combustion that petroleum fuels (gasoline, diesal, jet fuel, etc.) have. Ethanol sure doesn't and it's far more expensive to produce and in doing so robs the populace of valuable foodstuffs. Hydrogen isn't dense enough and the risk of it in pressurized storage form is very high....one spark and BLAMMO, mini-hindenberg. Gasoline burns. Hydrogen fuel explodes. Hmmm. And, those are the two real possibilities. Electric cars lack the range (and unless large battery tech takes a massive leap forward, it's going to stay that way) and the power to really drive anything other than featherweight cars and novelty college projects.

So, yeah right this crisis needed to happen.
I honestly just completely disagree. If you look at the past few years and the technology being implemented to get better efficiency out of cars you'd see there's a reason these technologies were invented. The pursuit of ways to make cars run longer on less fuel is something spurred by the rising prices. If prices didn't go up, would we have cars that shut down half their cylinders at highways speeds to save gas? Would we even have the snobby hybrid cars? Would Flex fuel even have existed?

Attempts at making cars better is just one step. We have to go further than that. Yes, the current alternatives out there aren't on the level they need to be, but at least we know that. This means that research is happening. There is no perfect alternative to oil, I know this. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying to find one that at least comes close. This isn't about idealism; this isn't about trying to create the ideal solution to oil. This is about being realistic and knowing that we're getting there, but it's still going to take years and a lot of research before we can even start thinking about "ideal". Right now we just have to focus on possibility. We have to TRY.

Without this whole mess I doubt we'd even be putting the legwork in.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:51 PM   #25 (permalink)
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With public land, it's pretty easy: you build a term into the contract or law that lets them drill on public land, saying to whom they may sell any oil pumped from that land. Of course, if the downstream parties in the gas production chain aren't bound by that term, you pass a law that says "the following products X, if derived from oil pumped from U.S. public lands Y, may only not be exported." Try selling your ITT Gen. 3+ scope outside the U.S., for example.
That's all well and good until other countries do the same. Or start putting high tariffs on oil exported overseas in retaliation.

The US economy is based on a free market, I think it's best to keep it that way.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:52 PM   #26 (permalink)
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How the rest of the world take to such protectionism when we already consume 25% of the world's oil.
I imagine they'll (most major oil producing countries) not care one bit, since they are more than happy to sell us massive amounts of "the world's" oil in exchange for capital they would otherwise be unable to obtain, entirely reliant on natural resource wealth as they are.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:54 PM   #27 (permalink)
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That's all well and good until other countries do the same. Or start putting high tariffs on oil exported overseas in retaliation.
You fail to note that neither the middle east nor Hugo's Bananna Communist Republic has any use for their oil at home. If we're not buying it, to some increasing extent the rest of the world is: but basically, without us buying it, they're sitting on a useless pool of non-polar liquid.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:59 PM   #28 (permalink)
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That's rather arrogant. There's plenty of other countries in the world that use oil and usage will only increase as those countries develop further.

What about the introduction of US specific oil tariffs from OPEC worded along the same lines as the US "Oil at Home" policy your proposing?
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Old 06-12-2008, 01:07 PM   #29 (permalink)
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That's rather arrogant. There's plenty of other countries in the world that use oil and usage will only increase as those countries develop further.

What about the introduction of US specific oil tariffs from OPEC worded along the same lines as the US "Oil at Home" policy your proposing?
OPEC is an illegal cartel anyway from my point of view, so big deal. Just another illegal tariff.

If the rest of the world wants us to sell our oil to them, then they need to bring down the price of oil to a more reasonable level. That's the deal.
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Old 06-12-2008, 01:26 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I imagine they'll (most major oil producing countries) not care one bit, since they are more than happy to sell us massive amounts of "the world's" oil in exchange for capital they would otherwise be unable to obtain, entirely reliant on natural resource wealth as they are.
Ah... but you make it sound like we're the only buyers or will always be the most attractive buyers.

I think I read in the paper this morning that china's oil consumption when up 25% in the first quarter of this year. Also, world demand exceeds supply for the first time since 2002.

When demand exceeds supply, even by relatively small amounts, prices go up very quickly. Especially when your entire capacity to produce food and clean water depends on the supply.
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