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Old 10-11-2006, 02:05 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Talfuchre View Post
I don't think he is a conviceted felon. I also don't think Bounty Hunters carry firearms.

I know he was charged with illegal extradition (or in this case kidnapping). But I am not sure he was convicted.

Long, long ago, he was convicted. Before he started the whole bounty hunting thing.

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Old 10-11-2006, 02:20 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by shadawg View Post
350 to 450 fps. When I bough my zues g2 from armotech, I couldn't get it to chrono below 400. I called them and they said I would have to cut the spring as they need to have that high of a velocity because they sell them to law enforcement for less than lethal weapons.
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Old 10-11-2006, 02:36 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If I may interject a bit here. I am a trainer for Pepperball systems and also my facility's armorer. We have 20 guns.

Yes, the guns shoot that fast. However, they don't recommend shooting over 350. I don't either as the accuracy sucks. Just like paintballs they tend to hook.

Pepperball guns have many uses. Riot/crowd control is a great one. Getting suspects or inmates to comply with lawful orders is another one. In the field (Like Dog is) less than lethal is deployed with a lethal cover officer.

I have said numerous times that Chapman and his gang use horrible tactics and are going to get themselves hurt or killed.

Pepperball does sell the A-5 as a deployment tool (they call it the SA-700).

Also, Chapman is a convicted felon. I am not sure of the circumstance but it resulted in the death of a man.

Last edited by Pickle; 10-31-2006 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 10-11-2006, 02:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Chapman is a convicted felon - read his biography on any number of websites such as -, or even the gospel A and E site. He was tried, convicted and imprisoned for a connection to a murder before he went "straight" he even said "every brick in the wall of that cell represented something I did wrong". The luster extradition is his most current case of which he has not been tried. I am referring to a PAST incident. Straight from A and E's website (

"Considered the greatest bounty hunter in the world, Duane "Dog" Chapman has made more than 6,000 captures in his 27-year career. This highly intense, charismatic ex-con and born-again Christian is the king of the comebacks. This modern-day hero once served time in a Texas prison. "I am what rehabilitation stands for," Dog says."

Bounty Hunters or BEA - Bail Enforcement Agents can carry firearms depending upon the state in which they operate. In fact most do. Hell, all the ones that I have seen in my days around here carry. KY Prohibits the practice of Bail Bondsmen and BEA all together. Look up the cases where bounty hunters have killed innocent civilians, by kicking in the wrong door, you think they did that with their bare hands? Here is a good place to start - ;,00.html
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Old 10-11-2006, 06:04 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Old 10-13-2006, 08:31 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Aside from the velocity issues, I think you guys are underestimating the effect of powdered pepper if you think people will be doing much shooting back, a hopper full of those is not something I would care to have happen to me that's for sure, perhaps Pickle can chime in on that as he would know better than I, but using them indoors without a gas mask on sounds like a knucklehead move.

As far as the velocity issues remember what happened to that woman who took a pepperball to the eye after the red sox won the world series, less than lethal isn't always less than lethal.

I've used an Armotech zeus G2 as my primary for years now and as far as I can tell ArmotechUS no longer exists, so it would be hard to find him to sue. Distributors probably still have their guns, but Warsensor makes the zeus G1+ and G2+ and Miltec is beginning to market the original imported G1 and G2. My G2+ was under 300(my old G2 was 350 min when I got it).

Man, Ronin those made horrifying reading! Maybe all bounty hunters should have camera crews following them as witnesses!

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Old 10-13-2006, 10:16 AM   #17 (permalink)
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well when you thinck about it less than lethal is only less if you dont keep taseing(sp) the guy did you ever thinck about it like that? any how im all for the hole peper ball thing becuase i've had pepper spray in my face and it sucks(well OC spray) and ya it realy sucks big time! so any how im gona sit back and watch now.

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Old 10-13-2006, 12:09 PM   #18 (permalink)
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agentSmith - indeed it is. I wrote several papers on BEA and the legality of their existence and practices for some of my undergrad work. There's a lot more out there... scary scary stuff. There are some legitimate and respectable "Bounty Hunters" out there. However there are a lot of cowboys and glory hounds out there that taint the business.

Crazy Doc - thats why they recently changed the name of "Less than Lethal" to "Less Lethal"
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Old 10-13-2006, 12:54 PM   #19 (permalink)
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There is no full proof less lethal system out there. There is always going to be some segment of the population that does not respond to less lethal. I have seen people lick OC Spray like it was apple juice. I am pretty susceptible to oc spray and pava pepperballs but that doesn't mean others will be as well. Pepperballs work because of the pain compliance of just getting hit the round as well as the effects of the pava powder.

I have no issue with Dog going to Mexico and getting that guy. I also don't think that we should honor Mexico's request to extradite him. THey don't honor ours. I do have issue with Dog's overall tactics. He may be charismatic but he is also dangerous to himself and others.

That girl in Boston was not hit with a pepperball. She was hit with a round from an FN-303 which is much more substantial in mass than a pepperball.
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Old 10-13-2006, 02:14 PM   #20 (permalink)
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The Girl hit in Boston - Victoria Snelgrove was also shot by an officer who was not properly trained on the use of the FN-303.

Ok, Ronin will be quiet now...
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