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Old 10-11-2006, 10:43 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Would a human clone have a soul?

I know, I know - I am not trying to be dramatic or start anything silly. Please be civil.

I am preparing a lecture on Cloning today for my Biomedical Ethics class and this question really has me wondering. I believe in souls, mostly because I just feel I have one, but what makes up my soul?

If the soul is 'immaterial' given to me by God - would cloning violate that giving of a soul?

If the soul is 'material' and comes somehow through the material creation of me - then what is this afterlife we often think of? Furthermore, it would seem to preclude any 'multiple lives' concepts because the sould is material.

I am just wondering and I wonder what you guys (and girls) takes on this subject is.

I am not trying to start a debate and will not debate on the topic - let's try to stick to simply stating our current views - holes and all.

EDIT:

I am adding some definitions for clarity:

Molecular Cloning:
Strings of DNA containing genes are duplicated in a host baterium.

Cellular Cloning:
Copies of a cell are made resulting in a ‘cell line’.

Embryo Twinning:
An embryo that has already been formed sexually is split into two identical halves.

Somatic Cell Nuclear Transfer:
The nucleus of an adult cell is removed and implanted into an egg cell where the nucleus has been removed.
A variant of this procedure, called fusion, is to put the donor cells next to an enucleated egg and fuse the two with an electric current.

"Dolly" was made from the last one SCNT. Cloning is a very ambigious term it seems.

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Last edited by Talfuchre; 10-11-2006 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 10-11-2006, 10:50 AM   #2 (permalink)
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wow...that is something I never thought of before. Kinda makes you think tho.
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Old 10-11-2006, 10:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I don't care... I need to clone myself soon... for spare parts.
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Old 10-11-2006, 10:55 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewtt View Post
I don't care... I need to clone myself soon... for spare parts.
You better get to it - your clone needs many years to get adult organs - I feel you are too far behind the power curve.

Also, what if your clone expected this and trained to be a cage fighter to fend you off when you come for his kidney or what-have-you? You may be SOL.

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Old 10-11-2006, 10:59 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Life is Life. Whether you create said life by "natural" methods or not, I don't think it matters. It's not like you have to check with G-d before you have sex to make sure he has a soul available.

This is all assuming that G-d exists, though. But that's another thread.

On second thought, let's not start that thread
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Old 10-11-2006, 10:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Well...Who is to say that since the soul is Imaterial it is the same size and shape of the human (or animel) body? Its been documented, thought the reliability of such is subject to debate, that people have "felt" or experienced things without any physical contact. Is it then possible that the "soul"or "Spirit" is an in tangable extenchoin of theperson (or animel) and as such could possibly have no physical limit. If such where possible then it could be that a Clone of a person who would naturaly (or not depending on your outlook) share the same physical make up AND biorythems or electromagnetic signature could then also share the same soul.

Also on a slight tangent but possibly germaine, ever consider Identical twins. They have been shownto share emotoins and physical sensatoins over vast distances and even show the abity to "read" each others minds. They have been shown to start and finish each others sentences and or handone another things that are needed with out being asked or shown any pyhsical gestures. Could this also be an example of sharing ones soul with another physical extenchoin?

All hypathetical of course. Personaly I believe in the eternal or immortal soul. I also believe in reincarnatoin. (Note: not that youcome back as a cow or butterfly upon death) I aso feel tht the soul opperated independently of lineir time and as such the possibility of "past" lives one yexperiance may not have happened yet but at some point in the future. but thats a diffrent topic.


Edit:Please ignore the spelling and gramatical errors.
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Last edited by Mstrtal; 10-11-2006 at 11:02 AM. Reason: King Typo!
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Old 10-11-2006, 11:06 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Sticking to the Judeo-Christian world, my answer is yes. Do identical twins share a soul? In essence, if I understand it properly, the cloning is forcing an embryo to divide thus creating identical twins as might happen naturally. Whether I have the science right or not I have no idea as that's only what I've read about cloning.
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Old 10-11-2006, 11:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Interesting question to say the least.

Not believing in "souls" I would have to say no. However thinking in the opposite mind set I (as if I did believe) would say yes. Essencially creating a clone would be the same as a creating a test tube baby using a donor egg and sperm. The clone may be gentically the same but make no mistake, the clone would not be the same person...so why would'nt he/she have a soul just like the rest of us?

Brewtt- you need a spare kidney? You know they dont call me kidneythief for nothing...

-Jake
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Old 10-11-2006, 11:33 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Since you can't prove they actually exist, you couldn't prove a clone wouldn't have one either.

Basicly, if people would have a soul, I'd have to agree with kidney.
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Old 10-11-2006, 11:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
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My view on the soul is as simple as math..

body + spirit (this means logos in greek or, conciousness, or sentience) = soul.

Thusly,

soul = body + spirit
soul - spirit = dead body
soul - body = spirit

so, without both body and spirit, you cannot have a soul.

Therefore, if there is an individual with a body, and is alive, and sentient, they are a living soul.

My evidence is submitted as:

Genesis 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Every other so called Christian concept of what a soul is and the existence of an "eternal" soul derive not from biblical sources, rather borrowed from other religeous thought and philosophy.

A clone would have no difference in his existence than any other twin, or any other person for that matter. The standard Christian objection to the practice of cloning doesn't come from any scriptural basis, but is simply an emmotional response which they attempt to justify using scripture in odd ways to back themselves up .

Cloning is no worse than fertility drugs which cause multiple pregnancies.
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