General

[~kaos~]

A few months ago we purchased a new house south of Tempe, Az. In our trips back and forth with furniture we noticed our cell phone service was hit and miss along the way. Once at our new residence we found that we had no calling service at all but one of the 2 phones was able to send text messages. I called the provider and explained the situation. We went thru several attempts to solve the issue without success. So they turned me over to their technical dept. After several minutes of pretty much the same things I had previously tried with customer service it was determined that maybe there was a signal/tower problem in the area. Because according to THEIR MAP I was in a medium service area and should have no problems. They asked me to give them a couple weeks to research the situation and that they would get back to me.

A couple weeks passed and I heard nothing so I called them back. The customer service looked up my "tag number" and told me that the issue was resolved. I told her that I was the end user and that I was still having the same problem and that absolutely nothing had been solved. She put me in touch with tech support again and we proceeded to do the same dog & pony show. They asked for another week to attempt to solve the issue and I agreed. At the end of that week it was still the same....

By now I had gotten another phone from a provider who was able to service our area. So I'm out in my backyard talking to the tech support guy again explaining that I have NO service whatsoever. He tells me I should because their service map shows me to be in a medium service area. I tell him I don't care what your map says I'm in a dead zone and have no service, period. So he asks if I have the phone handy, if so would I dial out on it so they can monitor the process. Oh yeah.... you bet. So I dial my parents number and get the ever popular "CALL FAILED" on my cell screen. So I tell the tech guy... he says yeah, could you try again. I ask would you like a different number and he says yeah. So I dial my daughters number..... "CALL FAILED". So I said is that enough or do you want more? He said no and that he'd connect me with a service rep so I could terminate service with them. He told that the failed calls would be noted in the case file. Even with all of that it still took me 15- 20 minutes to get the customer service rep to understand that my service contract with them was being terminated because they couldn't supply the "service".

So on May 1st I hung up my phone thinking everything was done except paying the last bill, which I did on June 1st. Then it happens.... around July 1st I get a bill for service for May to June. So I write a letter explaining that my contract with them is terminated and that no service is being provided or used. I explain that the simm cards were removed and the phones shut off, there is no possible way any usage could occur. I send the letter along with there billing back to them thinking they'll get the idea. Wrong.... the following month I get another bill for an additional months service.

So I break out my paper and pen again and write a more detailed letter. In there I ask them to note that no minutes are being used and that is because there is no service. I also tell them that technically they have no contract with me because I never signed anything with them, my contract was with Cingular and not AT&T.

So I guess they finally figure out I'm not going to send them any money so they turn me over to a collection agency.... yeah, sweet. So I contact them and bring them up to speed. They basicly say they don't care that the issue will not be resolved unless their client tells them it has been. I tell him what they're requesting is payment for services that were not provided and that's not legal. He says it's not his problem.... So I tell him that pretty much makes him a party in the collection of funds thru fraud. And he says whatever....

Up until the collection agency note I probably would have been content just to call everything even if all was zero'd out by AT&T. Now I'd like to do that and possibly sue AT&T (and the collection agency) for fraud, defamation of character (because it's now affecting my credit score/rating) and anything else I can think of.

Anyone here going thru this or something similar? Know anyone who has? I'm tired of the little guy getting burned all the time so I'm gunna kick the big s.o.b. until my boots wear out... any help or advice appreciated.

[Harbinger[TG]]

Dude that sucks big time. I think a strongly worded letter from a lawyer would resolve it.

[John Satclaire]

There may be some state and/or federal law that deals with collections. Google is your friend.

Speaking of which, this looks like a promising collection of information. Arizona Collection Agency Laws

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...edit/cre27.pdf Note that on page 8, Sec. 8.05(c) governs "CEASING COMMUNICATION." I'd personally consider recording calls after you send the written notice, so that you can catch these guys saying that they don't care what some law says and that they're gonna bug you and hound your credit report until you pay. Send the tapes and transcripts to the relevant prosecutor's office along with your complaint.

Also take a look at page 13, Sec. 809(a)(4).

[pillage]

I got the run around ten years ago with MCI, about overbilling. There are usually state agencys that deal with phone fraud. Everytime you send a letter to them send it certified mail with a signature confirmation. Keep all correspondence for a few years after it gets settled. The phone companies can be total pricks, and hope you will get sick of them and just pay.

[Dave-D]

....but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night!

Seriously though.

I know several friends who have worked, in the past, at cell service providers (T-mobile and Verison) and one who worked at a collection agency. Its pretty much standard procedure to tell customers who owe money (I understand you don't but from their side its the same) that a nonpayment will go "on your credit report" The dufus on the phone is reading from a preprapaired 'script'. A standard threat.

Even if it does go onto your credit report it can be disputed and even ERASED. I had a dispute during my divorce that was not my fault and I got it completely removed from all credit agency reports. I check my credit score yearly.

You really need to get a lawyer if you intend to fight this. Like Pillage said they want you to just give in and pay. A lawyer would know the legal channels to go through to get the giants attention. You will never be able to talk to anyone on the phone who could, or be willing, to solve this. (See 'Dufus' above) Your just and wearing yourself out. A letter from a lawyer and hopefully the cell company will figure that your serious and drop YOUR issue and move on to the next sucker.

Best of luck, you know we're all cheering you on.

[~kaos~]

Thanks for all the solid advice and support.....
For the most part I try to remember that the messenger is only delivering the bad news and isn't the reason for it. But when they tell you it's your prob you just can't help wanting to look for an axe to lop off someones head.... ya know? And the fact I got turned over to a collection agency is only part of the deal that gets me. I asked the agency what proof they had that I owed that specific amount if any? They said because their client said I did..... wtf? Someone from a big company tells a collection agency I owe X amount of $$ and they just start the paper mill turning?? I told the guy that his client didn't have a signed contract with me nor could his client provide proof that a service provided by them was being used by me. Fact is all the billing statements show absolutely zero usage. So yeah, I'm irked because the situation has hit collection status but I'm also PO'd because it seems like a company can get things to this level without any proof to support it.
Right now I have 3 calls into different lawyers so I'm just waiting for the phone to ring.......

[Shrub]

I am kinda going through the Same thing with Orkin...

[John Satclaire]

Originally Posted by ~kaos~

I asked the agency what proof they had that I owed that specific amount if any? They said because their client said I did..... wtf?

Useful info.

§ 809. Validation of debts
(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a
consumer in connection with the collection of any debt,
a debt collector shall, unless the following information is
contained in the initial communication or the consumer has
paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing—
(1) the amount of the debt;
(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;
(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days
after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the
debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed
to be valid by the debt collector;
(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector
in writing within the thirty-day period that the
debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector
will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of
a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such
verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer
by the debt collector; and
(5) a statement that, upon the consumer’s written request
within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will
provide the consumer with the name and address of the
original creditor, if different from the current creditor.
(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within
the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the
debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer
requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt,
or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector
obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment,
or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy
of such verification or judgment, or name and address of
the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt
collector. Collection activities and communications that
do not otherwise violate this title may continue during
the 30-day period referred to in subsection (a) unless the
consumer has notified the debt collector in writing that the
debt, or any portion of the debt, is disputed or that the consumer
requests the name and address of the original creditor.
Any collection activities and communication during the
30-day period may not overshadow or be inconsistent with
the disclosure of the consumer’s right to dispute the debt or
request the name and address of the original creditor.

Standard disclaimer: although, as some here know, I am a lawyer--nothing I post here or anywhere else on this site should ever be construed as legal advice. Seriously, you'd have to be a real idiot to rely on the professional opinion of "John Satclaire--Devil's Advocate."

[heinous]

I think while you're doing all this you should also do what John said and record all convos in the background.

And I'm sticking with T-Mobile now. Won't go back to Cingular again for sure.

[~kaos~]

Originally Posted by heinous

I think while you're doing all this you should also do what John said and record all convos in the background.
And I'm sticking with T-Mobile now. Won't go back to Cingular again for sure.

That all makes good sense to me John, the rough draft has already been written and will be cleaned up and sent out via certified mail tomorrow.

And yeah Heinous... I was a T-Mobile customer back when they were Voicestream, the only reason I changed from them after 6+ years of great service is that we moved to an area they didn't cover. The downside of that was Cingular was the only carrier that did. ...