General

[Drum]

Originally Posted by hummerking

the only thing with the ppk is that you need to use ball ammo to feed without any problems.

I used to regularly crank wide-mouthed high grade hollow points (albeit in .32 acp) out of a PPK that was made in 1936. Never had a misfeed.

Nowadays, when it occurs to me to do so, I still stake my life on it's reliability with that ammo.

(so dramatic like a gun nut)

[hummerking]

its not my ppk, my dad says its never fed HP very well. he just told me the hydra-shocks are the only HP that reliably feed. i always thought the round in the chamber was the only HP, i learn something new everyday.

[Drum]

Oh, yeah, your Dad's gun is a fairly different animal than my PPK. Didn't you say his was a PPK-S?

Back in '68, the Walther PPK was among the "evil guns" of that era, principally because it was so darn small (and so popular). A major firearms law passed that year essentially prohibited the importation of all handguns that were exactly the same size as a PPK or smaller. Bummer for Walther.

So Walther redesigned the PPK to make it a little bit bigger, primarily to avoid the law's effect ban on their imports, but also to beef it up to .380 caliber. This was called the PPK-S.
As I understand it from people who's opinion I value, the redesign resulted in subtle differences to feed dynamics in the PPK-S that detract from the magic that is the simple and elegant PPK.

Eventually, Walther either sold the license to someone here in the States or opened up their own US mfg plant where I would assume they still make the PPK-S, probably out of solid gold.

D

[bryceeden]

Originally Posted by Deus Machina

For ammo, I'm a fan of Gold Dot (9mm and up), Cor-Bon DPX for .380, and an all-around Federal fan.

Hollowpoints--Federal HST is some pretty wicked stuff. Your piece doesn't feed hollowpoints? They make an expanding FMJ, that blazes right through the thickest clothing and then expands to the range of some of the respectable JHP's.

Big thing to remember with ammo is that most everything the expensive jello tests tells you is wrong. Hollow points seldom open all the way up in actual people, expanding FMJs don't, black talons(I forget the new name) cut up surgons gloves really well but only increase lethality potential about 3% of the time, COR-BONs jacket seperates from the core and you get two injury tracks neither of which is much bigger then the bullet was to start with, LeMas is illegal, and even the big ol .45s won't knock a person down. Some rounds will go deeper then they were supost to, some won't get far past the skin.

Basically get to be a good shot, thats all thats going to make any difference whether you use Gold Dot, COR-BON, or Hydroshocks really won't make any real difference, all that matters is where the bullet hits and how fast that hit will bleed enough to incapacitate a person(they can still shoot you for 12 seconds after 100% destroying the heart) What ever you buy spend as much time on the range as possible.

[Match]

All of you pretty much hit on points I agree with. Drum said don't believe gun magazines and he is exactly right. To me, it seems every time I read an article the summary is "this is good, but we like caliber X if we have a choice" - and caliber X is larger and usually out of a gun far too big for concealed carry. Speaking of which, I first came across the Bersa in Guns and Ammo and they said, and I quote, "the .380 will never be a 9mm" thus emphasizing Drum's point: talking down the smaller calibers. I also agree with the Sig recommendation however, if we go this route, I am a Glock lover - but believe me I'm not one of those a-holes that brags incessantly about torture tests and reliability. I love Glocks for simplicity. The only problem for me with Glocks is that they are "blocks" or they are too small (G26/G27) to hold comfortable which made me look into the Bersa. When I saw one in the case today, I had to hold it. I liked it, it points naturally for me, is thin, and light.

I'm glad I got a lot of responses. I was fearing for a minute that this might become a "never heard of it...go with _______" threads.

[bryceeden]

The two most important things when buying a gun are first its reliability(it has to work, which is why Sig and Glock and such are great) and second how it feels in your hand(I've never held the Bersa but the P230 and PPK feel great IMO). If this gun meets both then its worth having.

[PolarMonkey]

With the advent of micro sized 9mm's, I'd skip the Bersa .380 for several reasons. For starters, unless you get the truly tiny .380's (Seecamp, Kel-Tec, Ruger LCP), the little 9mm's are just as small (my Kahr PM9 is a tad smaller and much lighter than my dad's PPK), yet much more powerful. Second, 9mm ammo is much cheaper and more readily available than .380 ammo, which is important if you plan on carrying for CCW since you'll want to shoot a lot for practice. Check out the Kel-Tec PF-9, its a tiny 9mm with a good reputation that retails for $250 or less.

[Mayvik]

A .380 should be plenty of gun for carry purposes. I inherited a FEG PA-63 in .380 (normally they're 9mm Mak) which is basically a PPK clone, and they're quite handy, my only complaint is the mags don't fully eject. The .380 ACP is nice because it's about the biggest caliber that will work reliably in a basic blowback without having issues with cycling or uber recoil.

FEG PA-63 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Deus Machina]

Originally Posted by bryceeden

Big thing to remember with ammo is that most everything the expensive jello tests tells you is wrong.

Good points, but a little exaggerated.

Remember, gel is not a person. It's a 'best case scenerio' on your side, and the absolute most one can hope for.

On the other hand, a bullet that fragments is probably a good thing, EFMJ does expand to some extent, at least after hitting a stiff organ or bone, and Cor-bon (DPX, at least) cannot seperate--it's all jacket, and bonded ammo of various sorts will fragment before it seperates. Either way, FMJ is still hardly the best you can carry.

Haven't heard of Talon (ranger SXT, for some years now) actually cutting gloves--that's another myth like its 'cop killer' reputation. They should extract it with forceps, anyway.

Shot placement and penetration potential are key. a .22 to the head is worth infinately more than a .45 in the shoulder, and no, nothing will knock anyone down. A 12-gauge slug will make them stagger, at most, from the physical impact.

[bryceeden]

Originally Posted by Deus Machina

Haven't heard of Talon (ranger SXT, for some years now) actually cutting gloves--that's another myth like its 'cop killer' reputation. They should extract it with forceps, anyway.

Tell Syd Vail that, he's a trauma surgen who has dealt with people being shot with pretty much everything out there pretty much every where a person can be shot. He said that he has had them cut his gloves when dealing with them.

Originally Posted by Deus Machina

Remember, gel is not a person. It's a 'best case scenerio' on your side, and the absolute most one can hope for.

Actually Jello simulates a shot to the outer thigh that misses the bone. Any organs, bones, anything really except that shot to the "standard" thigh(which is why in gel LeMas isn't all that impressive) and the gel will be wrong.
I would tend not to aim for the thigh, but thats just me.

As far as the CORBON DPX I don't know, I don't have alot of experiance with them but the 9mm lead cored ones jacket does seperate and leave two wound tracks(which could be looked at as a good thing)

A hollow point is definatly better then target FMJ. Thye're just not as cool and open up as much as what they would have you believe. LeMas which is a FMJ is actually the best round out there in terms of doing damage to its target, its a super light alloy that travels way way faster then normal rounds and its insane how much damage it does(and due to its being light there is no over penetration), we're talking pistol hits that look like rifle hits. But its classified as armor piercing and thus unfortunatly illegal.

I've got some great X-rays of several people with different rounds in them that shows how little they actually open up(JHP) and how far from uniform their depth of impact is. I wish I had a scanner so I could put them in.