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Old 05-04-2006, 06:26 AM   #141 (permalink)
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I find it ironic how some folks support the idea that protesters have the right to protest in any way they want and have it covered by the 1st Amendment (and no matter if they are even here legally or not), yet seem to fight tooth and nail telling those who disagree with how that protest was done how WRONG they are for having that opinion and saying so openly. The 1st Amendment has to apply to everyone if it is going to work, but time after time those on the far left seem to think it only applies to THEM.
Simply put if I am offended by what a protester does, I have every right to say so. If folks think what was done was inappropriate, they have the right to say so. If they also want to express nationalistic rhetoric and invite those who want to place another nations symbol over the one of the nation they have CHOSEN to live in (legally or not) to leave, they also have that right. And you know what? No amount of “but it is protected under the 1st Amendment” will excuse bad actions or offensive behavior. Yet, some seem to act as if saying you are offended is more offensive than those doing the offending….. ironic again.

To me at this point I could care less if the protesters’ actions were “legal” or not. They were still offensive, and wrong. There is a big difference between wrong and illegal in many cases. This just may be one of them.

I will also ask that if folks have political views about the administration or anything other than what the thread was created for that they go to The Bar and Grill and start a new thread about it. That is what the B&G was created for. I have watched this thread shoot off in different directions for no other apparent reason than to just be able to argue about something.

Let’s keep this on track…. Thanks.

Last edited by shartley; 05-04-2006 at 06:39 AM.
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Old 05-04-2006, 11:11 AM   #142 (permalink)
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Quote:
yet seem to fight tooth and nail telling those who disagree with how that protest was done how WRONG they are for having that opinion and saying so openly.
I find it ironic that people who disagree with the protesters are the same people who wave their "Made in China" USA Flag in one hand while shreading the US Constitution in the other.

The US Constitution apples to everyone on US Soil, illegal aliens or not.

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No amount of “but it is protected under the 1st Amendment” will excuse bad actions or offensive behavior.
You are wrong -->
Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (United States - 1989)

In a 5–4 decision, the U.S. Supreme Court invalidated a Texas statute outlawing flag desecration, reversing the conviction of a defendant who burned the U.S. flag to protest government policies.

Writing for the majority, Justice Brennan ruled that “If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the Government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable."

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They were still offensive, and wrong.
that is YOUR opinion and you have the right to say so. So please kindly show the same respect to those who have opposite views to your own and not make claims they were illegal in the first place which has no basis on facts. Who are you to decide for all of society what is offensive?

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Old 05-04-2006, 12:21 PM   #143 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mike31c
that is YOUR opinion and you have the right to say so. So please kindly show the same respect to those who have opposite views to your own and not make claims they were illegal in the first place which has no basis on facts. Who are you to decide for all of society what is offensive?
THAT statement is a classic case of "the pot calling the kettle black". Sorry Mike, but throughout this whole thread you seem to take delight in shooting down, berating or "dispproving" any opinions that differ from your own. Whether you agree with them, or find them preposterous is beside the point - they are the opinions of others RESPECT them.

The bottom line is that what they did was disrespectful. Whether it was legal or illegal can (as evidenced by this thread), be argued ad nauseum.
There are folks who are INCREDIBLY passionate about that flag - accept that when it's disrespected there will be those who react with passion and anger.

Sorry if this is off topic or inflammatory, mods if you see fit, remove it.
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Old 05-04-2006, 01:33 PM   #144 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mike31c
I find it ironic that people who disagree with the protesters are the same people who wave their "Made in China" USA Flag in one hand while shreading the US Constitution in the other.
This is clearly an inflammatory statement with no basis in fact. You continue to claim others are making blanket statements but the fact is they have NOT and yet you have, time and time and time and time again.

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The US Constitution apples to everyone on US Soil, illegal aliens or not.
And I didn’t argue that. But it seems that LAWS don’t. ILLEGAL aliens are ILLEGAL, meaning they are here breaking the law. You want to break things down to the most simple part, EXCEPT when it comes to that fact.


Quote:
You are wrong -->
Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (United States - 1989)

In a 5–4 decision, the U.S. Supreme Court invalidated a Texas statute outlawing flag desecration, reversing the conviction of a defendant who burned the U.S. flag to protest government policies.

Writing for the majority, Justice Brennan ruled that “If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the Government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable."
You just proved me CORRECT, not WRONG. They say it can be done, not that it was not wrong, offensive, or even excuses it. It just says that the GOVERNMENT can’t prohibit it. There is a difference, and a big one.


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that is YOUR opinion and you have the right to say so. So please kindly show the same respect to those who have opposite views to your own and not make claims they were illegal in the first place which has no basis on facts. Who are you to decide for all of society what is offensive?
Did I say everyone who protested was illegal? Not by a long shot. And I didn’t decide for “society” what was offensive, I stated what I found offensive. And guess what? I don’t see anyone here but YOU claiming it is anything other than offensive. Even those who agreed with their right to protest have stated how they did it was offensive.

In simple terms Mike, you have shown that you are not here to discuss the issue but to argue and pick apart every post to find fault to prove in some way everyone else is wrong and you are right… even if it does not have to do with the thread topic. This to me shows only the desire to be disruptive, and that will not be tolerated. Consider this a warning, stop.
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Old 05-04-2006, 02:09 PM   #145 (permalink)
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You continue to claim others are making blanket statements but the fact is they have NOT and yet you have,
Blanket statements?

kidneythief --> "These little !#@$'s need to learn a hard lesson. "

you --> "Most of the protests are out of pure ignorance, self interest, or just to protest something. "

c6 --> "that pisses me off too. if they're so proud of Mexico they should go back."

azzy --> "Why does the world listen to students? "

snyper --> "These people probably dont even know why they walked out of classes just wanted to be a part of something I guess."

wild --> "It is the shameful reality that communities have cropped up within the US, indeed within US cities, where Americans and their ideas, customs and values are not welcome."

and it goes on and on. So don't finger point to me when a lot of people here has made such statements.
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Old 05-04-2006, 02:15 PM   #146 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mike31c
Blanket statements?

kidneythief --> "These little !#@$'s need to learn a hard lesson. "

you --> "Most of the protests are out of pure ignorance, self interest, or just to protest something. "

c6 --> "that pisses me off too. if they're so proud of Mexico they should go back."

azzy --> "Why does the world listen to students? "

snyper --> "These people probably dont even know why they walked out of classes just wanted to be a part of something I guess."

wild --> "It is the shameful reality that communities have cropped up within the US, indeed within US cities, where Americans and their ideas, customs and values are not welcome."

and it goes on and on. So don't finger point to me when everyone here has made such statements.
If you look, at least my statement was NOT a blanket statement. In fact mine gives THREE reasons for SOME of the protests. Saying “most” is not ALL. I have gone out of my way to not make blanket statements. I have also gone out of my way to not simply argue for the sake of arguing. Neither can be said about your posts, to include this one.

And if you look at each of the statements you showed they don’t even prove the point you are trying to make. Enough is enough Mike.
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Old 05-04-2006, 02:21 PM   #147 (permalink)
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"Most of the protests are out of pure ignorance, self interest, or just to protest something. "
this is not a blanket statement? From where did you get this kind of information from?
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Old 05-04-2006, 02:30 PM   #148 (permalink)
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and THIS isnt also a blanket statement? Cmon dude:

"I find it ironic that people who disagree with the protesters are the same people who wave their "Made in China" USA Flag in one hand while shreading the US Constitution in the other."
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Old 05-04-2006, 02:34 PM   #149 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mike31c
this is not a blanket statement? From where did you get this kind of information from?
Do you even know what a blanket statement is? It covers ALL in one sweeping statement. If you read the statement you quoted me saying, it is clear that I said most which is not ALL, and I even broke that down into THREE separate reasons. I left plenty of room to account for anyone NOT covered in my statement.

As for where I got this information, it was based on what I have seen on the news… not just Fox but a wide range of news channels. And honestly I don’t have to qualify my statement. If you disagree, fine. Say so. But the claims you have tried to make have fallen short… WAY short.

I ask again... let it go.
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Old 05-04-2006, 03:59 PM   #150 (permalink)
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Alright folks. It's pretty clear that we've reached the end of positive discourse on this topic.

It's down to "Did not!", "Did too!". Please move on to another topic.
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