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Old 04-25-2006, 12:38 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I have a little trouble believing that all the car manufacturers in the world are in league with all the oil companies in the world trying to make sure that there is no real advancement in vehicle design...

That just sounds like tin-foil hat talking to me. If there WAS a better product that could be mass produced cheaper than the existing units than SOMEONE would have used it to make a profit. That's kind of the way a free market works.
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Old 04-25-2006, 12:47 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertsr
I have a little trouble believing that all the car manufacturers in the world are in league with all the oil companies in the world trying to make sure that there is no real advancement in vehicle design...

That just sounds like tin-foil hat talking to me. If there WAS a better product that could be mass produced cheaper than the existing units than SOMEONE would have used it to make a profit. That's kind of the way a free market works.
As I said, this was rumor (except the ceramic engine) and happened back in the '20s-'40s, if I remember right. I also think the rumors included the patents being bought possibly? It's been a while since I talked with some of my conspiracy theory friends.
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Old 04-25-2006, 07:10 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Yeah, let’s pass the buck some more. When oil prices go up, make the customers the problem.

The simple truth is that YES we can all do more to conserve. But that does not take care of the problem. And studies have shown that we are doing better with our oil use not worse. Yet the price of oil goes up.

Now take a look at the REAL problem…. places around the world, such as China, have begun to use massive amounts of oil. This puts a strain on the world oil market. Yet we have folks still opposed to drilling in Alaska.

And I find it disgusting that in many industries when the economy hurts they hurt too, but not the oil industry. They will never take a hit. Just hike the price up so their profits remain the same or go UP. Yup, the CUSTOMER is the problem. The CUSTOMER does not deserve to complain. Sorry, when the oil industry is making record profits you can’t convince me that we just have to suck it up and drive on (no pun intentended).
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Old 04-25-2006, 08:23 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Most cars in 1975: weighted 4000+lbs, had a v8, rear drive, automatic 12-15mpg = old mailbu
Most driven cars in us in 2005, 5000+ lbs have a v8 rear drive primary with 4x4 scondary, at, 15-18 mpg. =suv

Besides that DVD player, safety, pollution controls systems, nearly unrecyleable amounts of injected plastic and creature comforts, plus the expansion in US population, us cars are not much better in consumption at all, by the choices made mostly by consumers.

We are the problem when it comes to world supplies. I do not beleive Alaska is the magic bullet people beleive , but another gold rush of environmental damage to distract us instead.

Cars could be made different, boron composites, more efficent drivetrains, high heat operation engines, hydro, but all of us can't afford the technology, so no market, as well as other factors.

Alchohol has worked for years, double the CFM and delivery and go, but instead we pay farmers not to grow crops with tax dollars, and never work on the efficieny factor. And the Powertrippers can still have power if they want to waste the fuel ( I can say that having streeted pro-streets in my worse wasteful days).

Terrible circle of crap we weave.
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Old 04-25-2006, 08:51 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incynr8
Most cars in 1975: weighted 4000+lbs, had a v8, rear drive, automatic 12-15mpg = old mailbu
Most driven cars in us in 2005, 5000+ lbs have a v8 rear drive primary with 4x4 scondary, at, 15-18 mpg. =suv

Besides that DVD player, safety, pollution controls systems, nearly unrecyleable amounts of injected plastic and creature comforts, plus the expansion in US population, us cars are not much better in consumption at all, by the choices made mostly by consumers.

We are the problem when it comes to world supplies. I do not beleive Alaska is the magic bullet people beleive , but another gold rush of environmental damage to distract us instead.

Cars could be made different, boron composites, more efficent drivetrains, high heat operation engines, hydro, but all of us can't afford the technology, so no market, as well as other factors.

Alchohol has worked for years, double the CFM and delivery and go, but instead we pay farmers not to grow crops with tax dollars, and never work on the efficieny factor. And the Powertrippers can still have power if they want to waste the fuel ( I can say that having streeted pro-streets in my worse wasteful days).

Terrible circle of crap we weave.
Where did you get your information? From everything I have seen we have better vehicles, better mileage, more power, better features, more safety, etc. Also it is unfair IMHO to compare CARS then to SUV’s now. It makes the numbers work in your favor, but it is not an accurate comparison.

I will also point out that I don’t think Alaska is the silver bullet some do either. I DO however think it is PART of the answer. I think a multi prong approach to the problem is the answer. But unfortunately politicians and it seems most people, have a “one way or the other” stance on most issues. And I feel that creates most of the problems where nothing gets done.

Also if you think we have not made some significant advances in our vehicles you are mistaken. Go to China and look at the exact same vehicle as sold in the US and Europe. Take the identical models and put them side by side. You will see emissions standards YEARS to a decade or more behind in China, and the materials used will also be different in many cases… and the list goes on and on. And you can do the same thing with your unfair comparison between a 75 land yacht, and today’s SUV. Compare the HP, materials used, space, features, safety, etc. It is not apples and apples. It is apples and oranges.
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Old 04-25-2006, 08:54 AM   #26 (permalink)
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We also use cars a lot longer these days... when you can get 300k out of a honda it's pretty impressive.
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Old 04-25-2006, 09:00 AM   #27 (permalink)
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We created a society dependent on oil. Now we deal with the fact that it's not never ending, and it's time to adapt. I blame oil.... for being hard to get. Damn you oil.

It's about 5 USD a gallon here in Turkey I think.
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Old 04-25-2006, 09:17 AM   #28 (permalink)
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It IS fair to compare a 15mpg car to a 19mpg SUV over 30 years, becuase that's what people are driving. Do better options exist, sure do. None of the other claims you make are incorrect about the advancement in autos.
My point is gas useages based on our transportation choices and increased populations using them cancels out alot of the benefits.
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Old 04-25-2006, 09:29 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incynr8
It IS fair to compare a 15mpg car to a 19mpg SUV over 30 years, becuase that's what people are driving. Do better options exist, sure do. None of the other claims you make are incorrect about the advancement in autos.
My point is gas useages based on our transportation choices and increased populations using them cancels out alot of the benefits.
Yes, but we could also show comparisons between motorcycles and SUV’s as well.

I would like to see hard data though supporting that the most vehicles on the road now (not SOLD now) but actually being driven, are SUV’s. From what I see every day, this is simply not the case. I do see a lot more now than their used to be, but they still don’t make up the majority of what I see on the road. And I would like to see hard data that in 75 the majority of vehicles on the road were land yahts. I seem to remember a huge push in economy cars at that time.

I am not trying to be a pain, only wanting to see where you got your information.

I also heard on the news (can’t remember where) that although we drive more vehicles now, we use less oil per capita than any we did 20-30 or more years ago, Again, I don’t recall where I heard this though. So our oil use went up, but not as much as those using it. I hope that made sense. LOL

I just think SUVs are convenient targets, but they are not the only thing folks are driving. I am of the mind that folks should drive what they want, period. But I am also of the mind that folks should drive what they NEED. Sometimes this matches up, sometimes it does not. And I am also of the mind that far too often vehicles are purchased as status symbols and not because they will be used for what they are…. example: Some of the Pickups and SUVs out there are simply luxury vehicles that will NEVER see use as intended. They will never haul wood, go off road, carry its passenger load, etc.

I believe as in most things there is a wide range of factors and what is right or wrong. And I don’t think a big brush should be used to paint any picture.

But on another note about “wrong”… my sister just traded her economy car in for a small SUV. She did so to be “safer” and to have more room. But the fact is that the vehicle does not really have “more” room, it is just arranged different. And she drives in two speeds…. FAST and stop. So she not only does poor on gas, but is about as unsafe as you can be. This brings home some of Mike’s points. But again, I don’t think any side of the issue has “the answer” only part of the answer.
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Old 04-25-2006, 09:43 AM   #30 (permalink)
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We use more gas though
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/hs92/mf.pdf 1992

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/ohim/hs04/htm/mf21.htm 2004
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