UFC anyone? - Page 3

cfos00 · 10-01-2009, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diOs

i like it how kimbo is alwayed getting trashed on, but some how a circus act get a title fight after only 3 fights (which he didn't win all) and he his a creditable fighter?
none of his fights were any good or the least bit impressive. and honestly seems like the marketing train of the UFC is truely selling out. anything for ratings and money, and the way they handle this truely shows it.

How do you possibly figure? Yeah, Lesnar lost in his first fight in the UFC by getting submitted by Mir---top 3 HW on the ground---mostly because of inexperience after he had badly, badly hurt Mir. Heath Herring, a ten year vet, took one of the most one sided beatings in UFC history and ended up with broken ribs and a broken face (quite literally). He then beat Randy Couture (UFC HW beltholder at the time), a 5 time UFC champ (3 time HW) and got a TKO early in the 2nd. Then he went back and dominated Frank Mir (another former UFC HW champ who had just beaten Minotauro) on the ground where Mir is one of the best in world, and took virtually no damage. Mir looked like he was hit by a truck after that fight and was dominated with power and technique. He's even admitted to that in interviews. Lesnars wins haven't even been close fights. They've been one sided beatings with his opponents going to the hospital afterwards. He does 80% of the damage in the fight, and has the second highest takedown percentage in UFC history. And he's not fighting cans here, he's fighting guys that have a ton of experience, skill, and great resumes, and got their rear ends handed to them. What more do you want from the guy? He's beaten two of the top five HWs in the UFC, and gets another soon.

Then look at Kimbo. The guy fought Tank Abbott, who hasn't won a fight in about 5 years (he is about to fight Butterbean---not kidding), and took care of business there. Good job Kimbo on that, as he won a fight he should have won and took no damage. James Thompson (well known for his glass chin) was winning the fight that was stopped because of a burst cauliflower ear, something I'd never even heard of before nor since. Then he got knocked out by a guy that had quickly washed out of the UFC and that took the fight on very short notice.

In fairness, I don't think a lot of the hype around Kimbo is at all his fault. His organization put him in a completely unfair position by making him headline when he had virtually no experience against trained fighters while Kimbo hadn't really had time to train. That's a ton of pressure and it wasn't fair to build him up and expect him to carry the promotion like that. It was rushing a guy into a situation he wasn't ready for, and they tried to build him up to be something he wasn't. Before Brock fought a single pro fight, he trained for 2 years with MN Martial Arts Academy, one of the top camps in the US and with a guy that was a beltholder at the time in Sean Sherk. He was also a former HW NCAA national wrestling champ. Kimbo didn't get that experience. He did get to train with Bas Rutten, a legend in his own right, but Bas has repeatedly stated that he didn't get a ton of time with Kimbo and Kimbo didn't listen to what he was trying to teach him. These guys don't have a ton in common except that they both had big names before they fought in the spotlight. Their backgrounds are completely different, and the people they have fought are on completely different levels.

Kimbo seems like a good guy (Bas would strongly disagree with that assessment), and I hope he does get better. But he's a one tricky pony, and he really needs to fix that.

acesn8s · 10-01-2009, 08:02 AM

From what I've seen, I agree with both of cfos00's assesments.

Lesner is the real deal, a top notch wrestler with incredible power and enough submission defense to keep him out of a lot of trouble.

I'd love to see a Lesner vs. Minotauro fight. If Brock can beat a healthy Minotauro I don't see anyone currently signed by the UFC who can beat him for a while.

Kimbo has knock out power and up till now, the hype to draw a crowd. He should have stayed in EliteXC longer. It doesn't seem like Kimbo learned a whole lot from Bas (whose always been one of my favorite fighters).

Ryan381 · 10-01-2009, 08:23 AM

Well that was kinda lame. one of the trainers was like "the moon was on top of Kimbo and ya can't move the moon" Kimbo def. has no ground skills. Oh well life goes on

diOs · 10-01-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan381

Well that was kinda lame. one of the trainers was like "the moon was on top of Kimbo and ya can't move the moon" Kimbo def. has no ground skills. Oh well life goes on

lol you put 264 pounds on your face and arms and try moving it off. did roy win yes, but he got around the rules. if anyone thinks that was fighting please all you really need to do is continue supporting the ufc with your money, your comments you might want to keep yo yourself.

did i hear Lesnar has the second highest takedown percentage in UFC history?
the man has what 4 or 5 fights? are you kidding me, there is no way you should put Lesnar and the word history in the same sentence. the man is still green.
give me a pro football shot, all i need is a short pass right to the out side, when i catch it i will have a 100% in catches, after the play i will retire and i expect to be hauled off to the hall of fame. now doesn't that seem just as laughable as a man with 5 fights with the claim second highest takedown defense in history? come on lets drink some more coffee and wake up.

we all know as soon as lesnar loses it's over, one trick pony, thank you for your money and loyalty but the show is over. (i almost smell a mat serra)and i won't be surprised if he goes out quick, just hope he gets all the hate Kimbo has recieve.

usagi_tetsu · 10-01-2009, 09:26 AM

The wife and I watched last night (along with our 11-month old daughter who loves watching "man sports" with her daddy) and since we were pretty much watching Spike from 6pm on (the new TUF episode airs at 9pm here in Missouri, not much else on so we got our fill of watching UFC and the first 2 episodes of this season again), we got to talking about Kimbo's chances of winning the fight. After a bit of discussion, we decided that Kimbo was more than likely going to win due to all the hype that the UFC and Dana White slathered on him in the commercials running up to this season airing (remember: the fight you saw last night happened 3 or 4 months ago). Of course we were wrong... sort of. Who else thinks that Kimbo is going to make a comeback later in the season due to another fighter (possibly Marcus Jones, thanks to all of the teasers we saw at the end of last night's show) falling out? If you've been watching TUF for any length of time, you know that every season someone gets injured or can't take the pressure of being isolated in the house or can't stand the cameras watching them 24/7, and they leave the show. And if Kimbo wants to succeed in the UFC, I think he needs to do 2 things - go down a weight class to the light heavyweights and get himself a jiu-jitsu coach. The man needs some ground skills.

As for Brock Lesnar... damn. The man is scary. Yeah, they gave him a shot at the title far earlier than any other fighter could expect to see, but the UFC is not above taking any and all media attention it can. Look at what Mark Maguire and Sammy Sosa did for baseball in the last decade, with their chase for the homerun record. You can't tell me they weren't instructing the opposing pitchers to actually pitch to those two monsters, when any right-minded coach would have given the signal to walk that batter. But Brock has sure matured in the UFC - he probably would have beaten Frank Mir in the first fight if he had more jiu-jitsu skills at that point, and he left no doubt as to his skill in his second meeting with Mir. He left no doubt in my mind as to how scary a fighter he is when he trounced Randy Couture. And I still don't like Brock Lesnar - he's a loud-mouthed ***hole who has the brains of a doorknob, but even I admit he's intimidating in the octagon. It's going to be a while before someone comes up with a gameplan and/or the physical prowess to beat him, so expect to see a lot of him over the next couple of years. Will someone beat him? Yes. Everyone loses eventually.

cfos00 · 10-01-2009, 09:56 AM

Yeah, you can quote that number on the takedowns because of the attempts and the number of rounds he fought. He has as much experience in the octagon in terms of rounds and actual time fighting as several fighters other heavyweights because of fight duration (the one with a higher percentage, btw is GSP, and both are around 80 percent successful). He has 8 rounds in the cage. That's enough to know whether a guy can fight or not, and know if he's really really good at something. Damien Maia still doesn't have that much cage time but anyone watching knows the guy has some of the best bjj that the octagon has ever seen.

Also, Randy won the UFC heavyweight title in his 4th overall fight too. He wasn't too green either. Brock isn't a really likeable guy. That doesn't mean he can't fight and you should trash his skills because of it. The guy is scary in the cage.

p-bpat · 10-01-2009, 10:02 AM

Rampage; how are you supposed to get the moon off you?
That was hilarious.

I can't wait until Dana gives fat country the gears for a horrible fight.
Even Herb Dean saw that the little sissy punches he was dropping weren't doing anything. The restricted breathing by the fat gut was doing more damage to kimbo.
He will be back. And now with something to proove.

usagi_tetsu · 10-01-2009, 10:15 AM

Whoa, anyone else heard that "Rampage" Jackson is retiring/has retired? news linkies

cfos00 · 10-01-2009, 10:19 AM

Yeah, and I really hope it's a boxer's version of retirement, meaning a short vacation then back on the cage. Disappointing. I like watching him fight and would love to see him against Rashad, Rua, and/or Machida...

Steelrat · 10-01-2009, 10:32 AM

First of all, even though the punches seemed wimpy, I'm sure they hurt a bit. The point was that Kimbo was not able to defend himself. The ref isn't just going to let someone sit in a defenseless position until they really get hurt, the writing was on the wall. I didn't look like Kimbo was even trying to escape, and apparently after the fight, asked Nelson how to escape from that position in the future, which Nelson (being a class act), showed him how to do. For anyone who remembers, keep in mind that Matt Hughes did essentially the same thing to BJ Penn in their second fight.

Secondly, keep in mind that this is a short-duration show, and the fighters need to be able to fight several times in a much shorter span of time than they would normally do. I'm sure Nelson could have stood and banged with Kimbo, but any damage he took might have carried over to his next fight. Just look at the guy last season who had to fight a week or two after getting teeth knocked out. Nelson won the fight with the minimal amount of effort and damage, which is a smart strategy, considering that the objective is to win the contract, not make exciting fights.

10-01-2009, 09:26 AM	#25 (permalink)
usagi_tetsu Good once as I never was Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Columbia/Jeff City, MO	The wife and I watched last night (along with our 11-month old daughter who loves watching "man sports" with her daddy) and since we were pretty much watching Spike from 6pm on (the new TUF episode airs at 9pm here in Missouri, not much else on so we got our fill of watching UFC and the first 2 episodes of this season again), we got to talking about Kimbo's chances of winning the fight. After a bit of discussion, we decided that Kimbo was more than likely going to win due to all the hype that the UFC and Dana White slathered on him in the commercials running up to this season airing (remember: the fight you saw last night happened 3 or 4 months ago). Of course we were wrong... sort of. Who else thinks that Kimbo is going to make a comeback later in the season due to another fighter (possibly Marcus Jones, thanks to all of the teasers we saw at the end of last night's show) falling out? If you've been watching TUF for any length of time, you know that every season someone gets injured or can't take the pressure of being isolated in the house or can't stand the cameras watching them 24/7, and they leave the show. And if Kimbo wants to succeed in the UFC, I think he needs to do 2 things - go down a weight class to the light heavyweights and get himself a jiu-jitsu coach. The man needs some ground skills. As for Brock Lesnar... damn. The man is scary. Yeah, they gave him a shot at the title far earlier than any other fighter could expect to see, but the UFC is not above taking any and all media attention it can. Look at what Mark Maguire and Sammy Sosa did for baseball in the last decade, with their chase for the homerun record. You can't tell me they weren't instructing the opposing pitchers to actually pitch to those two monsters, when any right-minded coach would have given the signal to walk that batter. But Brock has sure matured in the UFC - he probably would have beaten Frank Mir in the first fight if he had more jiu-jitsu skills at that point, and he left no doubt as to his skill in his second meeting with Mir. He left no doubt in my mind as to how scary a fighter he is when he trounced Randy Couture. And I still don't like Brock Lesnar - he's a loud-mouthed **hole who has the brains of a doorknob, but even I admit he's intimidating in the octagon. It's going to be a while before someone comes up with a gameplan and/or the physical prowess to beat him, so expect to see a lot of him over the next couple of years. Will someone beat him? Yes. Everyone loses eventually. __________________ Louder than God's revolver, and twice as shiny. A shark is an animal that dies if it stops moving - stay pumping my friends. Petrosexual Handbook* tested and approved! Save the Manuals! My feedback Last edited by usagi_tetsu; 10-01-2009 at 09:31 AM.

10-01-2009, 09:56 AM	#26 (permalink)
cfos00 Midget Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Washington, DC	Yeah, you can quote that number on the takedowns because of the attempts and the number of rounds he fought. He has as much experience in the octagon in terms of rounds and actual time fighting as several fighters other heavyweights because of fight duration (the one with a higher percentage, btw is GSP, and both are around 80 percent successful). He has 8 rounds in the cage. That's enough to know whether a guy can fight or not, and know if he's really really good at something. Damien Maia still doesn't have that much cage time but anyone watching knows the guy has some of the best bjj that the octagon has ever seen. Also, Randy won the UFC heavyweight title in his 4th overall fight too. He wasn't too green either. Brock isn't a really likeable guy. That doesn't mean he can't fight and you should trash his skills because of it. The guy is scary in the cage. __________________ My feedback: http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/f...-feedback.html Need a Centerflag Uprising manual? PM me.

10-01-2009, 10:02 AM	#27 (permalink)
p-bpat Seasoned Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario Canada	Rampage; how are you supposed to get the moon off you? That was hilarious. I can't wait until Dana gives fat country the gears for a horrible fight. Even Herb Dean saw that the little sissy punches he was dropping weren't doing anything. The restricted breathing by the fat gut was doing more damage to kimbo. He will be back. And now with something to proove. __________________ Canadian Response Feedback: http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/f...-feedback.html Tell me why I had to be a powerslave. I don't wanna die, I'm a god, why can't I live on? When the Life Giver dies, all around is laid waste. And in my last hour, I'm a slave to the power of death.

10-01-2009, 10:15 AM	#28 (permalink)
usagi_tetsu Good once as I never was Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Columbia/Jeff City, MO	Whoa, anyone else heard that "Rampage" Jackson is retiring/has retired? news linkies __________________ Louder than God's revolver, and twice as shiny. A shark is an animal that dies if it stops moving - stay pumping my friends. Petrosexual Handbook tested and approved! Save the Manuals! My feedback

10-01-2009, 10:19 AM	#29 (permalink)
cfos00 Midget Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Washington, DC	Yeah, and I really hope it's a boxer's version of retirement, meaning a short vacation then back on the cage. Disappointing. I like watching him fight and would love to see him against Rashad, Rua, and/or Machida... __________________ My feedback: http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/f...-feedback.html Need a Centerflag Uprising manual? PM me.

10-01-2009, 08:02 AM	#22 (permalink)
acesn8s Seasoned Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Allentown, PA	From what I've seen, I agree with both of cfos00's assesments. Lesner is the real deal, a top notch wrestler with incredible power and enough submission defense to keep him out of a lot of trouble. I'd love to see a Lesner vs. Minotauro fight. If Brock can beat a healthy Minotauro I don't see anyone currently signed by the UFC who can beat him for a while. Kimbo has knock out power and up till now, the hype to draw a crowd. He should have stayed in EliteXC longer. It doesn't seem like Kimbo learned a whole lot from Bas (whose always been one of my favorite fighters).

10-01-2009, 08:23 AM	#23 (permalink)
Ryan381 Active Member Join Date: Apr 2006	Well that was kinda lame. one of the trainers was like "the moon was on top of Kimbo and ya can't move the moon" Kimbo def. has no ground skills. Oh well life goes on

10-01-2009, 10:32 AM	#30 (permalink)
Steelrat Seasoned Member Join Date: Feb 2008	First of all, even though the punches seemed wimpy, I'm sure they hurt a bit. The point was that Kimbo was not able to defend himself. The ref isn't just going to let someone sit in a defenseless position until they really get hurt, the writing was on the wall. I didn't look like Kimbo was even trying to escape, and apparently after the fight, asked Nelson how to escape from that position in the future, which Nelson (being a class act), showed him how to do. For anyone who remembers, keep in mind that Matt Hughes did essentially the same thing to BJ Penn in their second fight. Secondly, keep in mind that this is a short-duration show, and the fighters need to be able to fight several times in a much shorter span of time than they would normally do. I'm sure Nelson could have stood and banged with Kimbo, but any damage he took might have carried over to his next fight. Just look at the guy last season who had to fight a week or two after getting teeth knocked out. Nelson won the fight with the minimal amount of effort and damage, which is a smart strategy, considering that the objective is to win the contract, not make exciting fights.