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Old 09-05-2010, 06:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Issues with Puma

Guys,
Was very active in paintball 15 yrs ago, put my Puma on the shelf for a while. I've been active again this summer, and other than having to replace a few O rings, the Puma has been shooting great. Today, a different story, perhaps I can get your feedback on where to look to address the issue.

Today, for the first hour and a half, more great shooting from the Puma. Then, the gun began acting as though it wasn't getting enough air pressure, even though the tank was full. As the morning progressed, the burping got worse, and I started to go through O rings on the CO2 tank like crazy. Five today.

I completely disassembled the marker three times, cleaned it thoroughly, and oiled it carefully. All the visible O rings were cool, and the gun would shoot ok, then start burping. Pointing the gun down and dry firing sometimes cleared it, but not always.

I am playing the stock Puma with an expansion chamber and smart parts barrel.

Any thoughts on what could be causing this?
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Old 09-05-2010, 06:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Have you try adjusting the re-cock pressure? It's one of those 2 set screws on the side of the puma.
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Old 09-05-2010, 07:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yep, it had no effect on the issue. I made sure to try setting this screw to various levels without a change.

Also, I didn't hear any leaks from the marker, but wondering if the O ring that is on the valve seat (inside the upper and lower receiver) might be the culprit. It's not easy to get to, as the upper and lower halves of the receiver are pinned together. Anyone opened the receiver up?
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Old 09-06-2010, 12:37 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Have you tried a different CO2 bottle? I have one that is new, but the valve only works sometimes, varying with the bottle pressure.

Capitalpaintball may know the difference in the puma, but alley cats are held together with one screw in the back and two in the front asa (or where the asa would go). Those hold the top and bottom together.

How many shots have been put through the marker? Are there any deep marks on the hammer ring where it hits the valve?
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:10 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Although you can get them to work with regular co2, Puma's and Bobcats preferred syphon tanks.

You could have a problem with the valve stem unscrewing from the valve seat, or a bad rear bolt o-ring, or even paint wedged under the ball detent.
Its really hard to say

First dissemble the marker and clean and LUBE it, check that the valve pin is threaded all the way into the valve seat. the gun comes a part with four screws. 2 in the back and 2 in the front. there is no reason to remove the 2 screws that hold the front asa.
once apart you will have a detent spring, valve saucer (looks like a space ship) valve pin/seat and valve spring. there is an o-ring beneath the saucer but if you have no leak there is no reason to change it. there is also a tear drop shaped o-ring in a groove in the top half of the body. generally it never goes bad.
for non syphon co2, you might want to turn the velocity screw on the side of the gun in(lowering the velocity) and use the rear velocity screw to turn it back up.
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Ok, found the four screws that hold the upper and lower receiver together. All of the internal O rings looked solid.

I was able to reproduce the issue with a different CO2 bottle. It seems that sometimes when I screw the CO2 tank on it works fine, others not. When it doesn't work I either get a shredded O ring or get a slight leak in the marker itself. I cant explain this given the condition of the O rings.
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Capitalpaintball,
Good stuff, thanks for the detailed reply.

Have disassembled completely and lubed the marker. Regarding the valve stem and the valve seat, mine aren't threaded, they just fit together with pressure. Perhaps I am just not understanding the terms, but my manual shows the valve seat to be the space ship thingy, while the valve stem is a silver rod with a brass fitting attached.

As I work more with the marker, I can detect a leak down the barrel now that I didn't notice before. Does this indicate the valve?

Thanks again

Last edited by scottmitchell56; 09-06-2010 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
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The silver valve stem is screwed into the brass seat. Put an adjustable wrench on the brass side and use vise grips(carefully) on the stem. the should separate. then using a sharp pick or pin, remove the white Teflon seal.you should be able to flip the seal over and use the other side. then re-assemble the pieces.
If you have a leak down the barrel, it is the valve seal, or o-ring beneath the "saucer".
Now if you are tearing tank o-rings off your co2, it has nothing to do with the inner workings of the gun. some asa's will chew up o-rings when you screw them in and out. make sure you are not using black rubber o-rings for your tanks.
always put a few drops of oil in the asa when you add a new tank. If using an expansion chamber you want to shoot the marker as you unscrew the tank, this eases the pressure off the o-ring as you unscrew it.
if it continues to be a problem, look into an on/off valve for your tank.
nothing to do with the tank o-ring will make the gun not shoot right so it sounds as if you have 2 separate problems.
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Old 09-09-2010, 10:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I've gone through re-cock problems with my Puma in the past and it's hard to narrow down exactly what needs to be done to remedy the problem. I doubt there is anything internally that needs to be addressed. It sounds like you've gone through everything inside and all seems to be well. A barrel leak can be normal and shouldn't really be the culprit.
Main issue is that there isn't enough pressure to kick the bolt back (it is quite a heavy bolt). First things first, the spring tension should be backed all the way out. I've found that the re-cock adjustment screw only needs to be turned out a few rotations from completely screwed in. Turning it more than what the manual recommends(1 1/4 of a turn I recall) doesn't seem to do much.
There are a few things that I think would help.
1. Get rid of the expansion chamber. capitalpaintball has a good point about using a siphon tank. Using liquid CO2 will pretty much guarantee you'll be kicking that bolt back, but your consistency/efficiency may suffer. If you can't get your hands on a siphon tank right away you might just want to try a direct bottle or a bottom line w/o the expansion chamber.
2. Try the stock barrel or a non-ported barrel. Even better, get a barrel kit or a barrel that underbores the paint you are using. The idea here is that you don't want gas to escape around the paintball as it travels through the barrel.
3. Try a high pressure output compressed air tank. I've found that the velocity/re-cock setting quite different than CO2, but once you dial in the settings you shouldn't have any more problems. From what I remember from using compressed air, I had to unscrew the velocity adjustment screw all the way out and turn the spring tension up quite a bit.

Keep in mind, when I'm setting up my Puma I may not be able to get the bolt to cock back unless I'm shooting paint. If I tune it without paint, I'll take off the barrel and put my hand over the breech/barrel threading. If the gun re-cocks after dry firing it with me holding my hand there, it usually will re-cock with paint. If I take my hand away and just dry fire it, it will often not be able to re-cock.

Last edited by krupasjeans; 09-10-2010 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 09-10-2010, 02:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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With a polished hammer and a well worn alley cat, I've actually had trouble keeping it from recocking, even with HPA. I found a couple of things that made a difference.

One was the black gas ring was worn on all edges and I suspect air was leaking by from the ball or "velocity" port. However, I put an o-ring and groove around it to seal up the outside and it didn't help noticably.

The other thing was that the valve body was worn from the stem being hammered (old rental). The valve was leaking air around the stem directly to the recock side of the gas ring. I drilled the port out and put in a brass sleeve to get it back in shape. That made a big difference and brought the recock adjustment back into play, but the alley cat (one) still recocks with HPA shooting about 240 fps max. It needs a CO2 tank to get up to 270 fps. I was working on a siphon tank for it, but the bottle valve I picked out was a newer one with the bypass on the threads.

Have you cleaned the inner bore where the hammer and bolt travel? Is your hammer polished? Those might help.
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