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Old 06-05-2011, 08:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Puma Problems

I have two problems with my Puma that I would really like some advice on guys.

1st problem is that the darned thing is going full auto on me. I can't release the trigger fast enough for it to fire just once. There is some wear inside oc course being gun of the age it is but I was ondering if this issue could be caused if I accidently put a Allycat hammer in instead of the right one (Isn't the Alleycat one a different size?)

2nd problem is that I can use my siphon tank on the back, put it on the front and I can't get it to recock. Any ideas?
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Originally Posted by Robertsr View Post
I don't so much make money, as provide a conduit for it's movement.
Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.
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Old 06-05-2011, 10:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The full auto thing sounds like an issue with the sear or the hammer. I don't really know enough on the subject to say for sure though.
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:51 AM   #3 (permalink)
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The first thing I think of when I hear about a Cat going full auto is the sear/trigger assemblies getting worn out. Could also be the bolt/hammer area where the sear catches getting worn out too.

If the sear and hammer look good, it could still be a worn area on the top of the trigger piece causing the full auto bursts.

Still, there is a slim chance it could be your recock and velocity settings helping cause that. Can't rule that out until you mess with those settings a little bit.

Not sure what your question was about the Alley Cat. I'm pretty sure the rear part of that bolt/hammer won't work with the Puma. I've read that it's a different size. I haven't owned an Alley/Thunder Cat to compare them myself however.

If you are using a siphon tank in the vertical position, it won't function normally. I think the tank needs to be tilted slightly so the tube can rotate to reach the liquid.
If you have the bottle mounted horizontally in front though, I don't know what to tell you other than to try another siphon tank.
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:19 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Make sure your hammer bumper in the back cap lets your bolt/hammer travel back about 1/16" or more past the sear catch. I had a new one that was too long and it kept the hammer from catching without a lot of recock flow.

The alleycat sears are very hard, so I would expect any wear to be on the bottom of the hammer where it catches.

Also, the sear itself has a short slot where the mounting pin goes through. It floats back and forth. When you pull the trigger, it slips under the hammer and the pull spring can then pull it toward the back of the marker, away from the trigger catch. The sear is then free to rotate up and catch the hammer. This should let it catch regardless of what you do with the trigger. Make sure the sear is clean and has some spring action that forces (pulls) it to the rear.

If someone can verify that Puma and Alleycat hammers were different sizes, we can measure and Alleycat hammer and see if you have a problem there. The alleycat hammer diameter should be very close to that bushing size, which is around 0.870". However, I'm thinking it was actually the sear catch position that was shifted between the two. It was probably posted in here by capitalpaintball.

On your siphon tank; a possibility may be that the (tank valve/siphon setup) is restricted *snip* [I have to go with cp's idea below of insufficient opening on the front ASA.]

On a side note, I was looking at that valve chamber for devolumizing the other day. The seat for the valve body was left when they bored that space, so you can't just drop something in there to sleeve it. What might work are some nylon split ring washers with a 3/8" id that you could stuff in there in pieces. That would let the liquid come by the ports as well. However, with your front port siphon bottle problem, you may not want any less volume there.

***

Differences between the "Cats"

I'll try to measure some hammers tonight. The thundercat hammer looks a whole lot like the alleycat, so now I'm curious about those two.
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:24 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Make sure the safety isn't on.
On Pumas and Bobcats the safety would wear and cause the gun to fire multiple shots when in safe position.
Back in the day you use to be able to send them into ICD for the "tournament" trigger mod where the milled the trigger so it would fire only once when the safety was on but the pull was shorter.

I am pretty sure an alley cat hammer will not fit in the Puma. there is a considerable difference in where the sear catches on the bolt. if you put one in and tried to cock it it wouldn't catch on the sear.

position of the siphon tank on the gun will not make a difference if running dual bottles, but if you run just the front tank under the barrel you will have issues. its why ICD switched front hangers from able to fit a 12oz to only excepting a 9oz. if you only use the front hanger it needs to be vertical.
The other issue could be the front hanger is not opening the valve enough to get good flow.
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:30 AM   #6 (permalink)
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The hammers are the same just cut different. I needed a new Puma bolt once and called ICD, and they said they would just recut an Alleycat one for me.
the one on the right is Allecat, the left is Puma
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalpaintball View Post
but if you run just the front tank under the barrel you will have issues. its why ICD switched front hangers from able to fit a 12oz to only excepting a 9oz. if you only use the front hanger it needs to be vertical.
Is this because you are usually aiming up with the marker and it is getting gas instead of liquid?
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Old 06-06-2011, 11:12 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks for everything guys, I guess that rules out putting the wrong hammer in it anyway.

I'll figure it out ASA and let you guys know what I figured out.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertsr View Post
I don't so much make money, as provide a conduit for it's movement.
Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Yea basically, if you shoot upward the siphon sucks air.
The thing about Creek gus is its all or none. if you run liquid, you need liquid all the time or it stutters. so duals is best. or vert front bottle. if you run just the back or a bottom line you want to make sure you dont shoot towards the ground to much.
Its the same if you run non-liquid. keep the liquid out or it will stutter.
ICD said after they switch the hanger, more then half of the repairs for guns not shooting right stopped. it seems people are not willing to go onto the field with just a 9 oz under the barrel.
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Old 06-11-2011, 12:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Going out on a limb here but I seem to have found the problem.

It seems that I had the wrong main spring in there, possibly the one from my Alleycat, I have two springs of the same diameter and stiffness, one was a little longer (and matched the one in my Alleycat rebuild kit) Put the shorter one in and it seems to be working fine. I'll know more for sure when I take it out to the field as my siphon tank is empty but it worked from the vert ASA upside down so I'm hopefull.

I did check all parts for wear and didn't see anything exexive or to the point I thought it would cause trouble.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertsr View Post
I don't so much make money, as provide a conduit for it's movement.
Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.
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