Another FASOR project (krait) - Page 11

y0da900 · 10-06-2008, 05:52 PM

I had heard about the same thing for materials, especially nylon making a very nice seal but not worth it for other various reasons. It's a shame Have Blue wasn't able to get the formula for the Black Magic cup seals.

dukie · 10-06-2008, 06:10 PM

Its black delrin apparently. I can get some ( At least I am pretty sure I have some) at the shop if you want me to send you some. Or if you send me the drawing for the cup seal, I can try and turn some out.

y0da900 · 10-06-2008, 06:15 PM

From what I've seen, I thought the only difference between natural/white Delrin and the black stuff was the color.

dukie · 10-06-2008, 06:29 PM

yep pretty much ( forgot about that), I know that I have white delrin. I can work with that.

fwag69 · 10-06-2008, 07:13 PM

I do know that the CCM valve pins are some sort of rubber, i think. might work best

Paintballer50505 · 10-06-2008, 11:55 PM

black delrin has carbon added into it for the color. It will dull your tooling faster then natural white. Other then that, its the same. Maybe with the design you should reconsider the screw in stem to the cupseal and go for a more secured press in seal, possibly pressed through the front with a stop on it so it cannot be pulled through the plastic, Something on the back such as a pin could be made, or a hole filled with epoxy to prevent it from pushing forward so it could primarily be indestructible. On a second look at spring placement the idea I just said wouldnt work to well, maybe a screw out the front that threads into the metal stem instead of the plastic could be a more permanent solution, this worry is coming from someone who had a few cupseals rip off the stems on me. Also I noticed with that design on the cupseal it would need to be very precise to seal up without an oring groove. Perhaps cut a small lip in place of that oring groove that can dig in and create that seal like most cupseals do, but that design looks rock solid for smooth air flow.

Legion · 10-07-2008, 01:26 AM

Paintballer50505!!!
So glad you decided to join our little design session.if i remeber correctly you built a Fasor using a angel ram?

Anyway glad to have your input

I am concerned about the cupsela as wek all are but i have a material called Nyltron that i have used before with great success. Also keep in mind that it will have between 400 -800 psi of pressure pushing into it. If it doesn't sel we can add either a oring or a lip to help provide sealing surface.

y0da900 · 10-07-2008, 08:18 AM

If I get any lathe time soon that doesn't involve my other prototype, I'll punch out a few from Delrin so we can test both materials.

Legion · 10-07-2008, 01:24 PM

Im in the same boat, currently swamped between my real job, kids and customers work...but as soon as i get a free minute i'll do some parts runs.

Paintballer50505 · 10-07-2008, 03:16 PM

wow that is a real high operating pressure, you may need a real high lpr pressure to push the rammer enough to open the valve, possibly needing a higher pressure solenoid.

Yes I modded an angel ram to slip in the cocker body and I threw a spring in the ram, I ran that one without an lpr and a mac noid at about 170 psi, I didnt really have a hammer either, I used a piece of ertalyte that was used to hold the bolt pin onto the rams piston and I just let the steel piston impact against the valve, worked really well but it was also very smooth without much kick which if I read correctly kick is something that you are trying to keep with this gun.

for a solenoid if you wish to simplify things a bit, alien is using a new noid that can take pressures up to 450 psi I know macdev was asking jack about the new noid and they were planning on switching to it to (he said this at nppl buffalo). If you wanted to run the operating pressure between 300-400 psi then you could get away with no lpr and that solenoid and would simplify the entire setup and tuning process.

I am really not much help with this project to me it looks like fasors have tons of opportunities as lpr free poppets that can greatly benefit from pressure assisted valves, being newton style, or the traditional style, or a combination of the two, that could give it a very low operating pressure, no lpr, very low maintenance, and a very small dwell time that would help with efficiency and battery life. That would generally make a very smooth poppet style marker

10-06-2008, 07:13 PM	#105 (permalink)
fwag69 Active Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Mass	I do know that the CCM valve pins are some sort of rubber, i think. might work best __________________ Eric Nogueira #69 Fox4's Finest Reppin Fox4 Paintball

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10-06-2008, 05:52 PM	#101 (permalink)
y0da900 Active Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Plattsburgh, NY	I had heard about the same thing for materials, especially nylon making a very nice seal but not worth it for other various reasons. It's a shame Have Blue wasn't able to get the formula for the Black Magic cup seals.

10-06-2008, 06:10 PM	#102 (permalink)
dukie MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kitchener, Ontario	Its black delrin apparently. I can get some ( At least I am pretty sure I have some) at the shop if you want me to send you some. Or if you send me the drawing for the cup seal, I can try and turn some out.

10-06-2008, 06:15 PM	#103 (permalink)
y0da900 Active Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Plattsburgh, NY	From what I've seen, I thought the only difference between natural/white Delrin and the black stuff was the color.

10-06-2008, 06:29 PM	#104 (permalink)
dukie MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kitchener, Ontario	yep pretty much ( forgot about that), I know that I have white delrin. I can work with that.

10-06-2008, 11:55 PM	#106 (permalink)
Paintballer50505 Active Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Jersey	black delrin has carbon added into it for the color. It will dull your tooling faster then natural white. Other then that, its the same. Maybe with the design you should reconsider the screw in stem to the cupseal and go for a more secured press in seal, possibly pressed through the front with a stop on it so it cannot be pulled through the plastic, Something on the back such as a pin could be made, or a hole filled with epoxy to prevent it from pushing forward so it could primarily be indestructible. On a second look at spring placement the idea I just said wouldnt work to well, maybe a screw out the front that threads into the metal stem instead of the plastic could be a more permanent solution, this worry is coming from someone who had a few cupseals rip off the stems on me. Also I noticed with that design on the cupseal it would need to be very precise to seal up without an oring groove. Perhaps cut a small lip in place of that oring groove that can dig in and create that seal like most cupseals do, but that design looks rock solid for smooth air flow.

10-07-2008, 08:18 AM	#108 (permalink)
y0da900 Active Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Plattsburgh, NY	If I get any lathe time soon that doesn't involve my other prototype, I'll punch out a few from Delrin so we can test both materials.

10-07-2008, 03:16 PM	#110 (permalink)
Paintballer50505 Active Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Jersey	wow that is a real high operating pressure, you may need a real high lpr pressure to push the rammer enough to open the valve, possibly needing a higher pressure solenoid. Yes I modded an angel ram to slip in the cocker body and I threw a spring in the ram, I ran that one without an lpr and a mac noid at about 170 psi, I didnt really have a hammer either, I used a piece of ertalyte that was used to hold the bolt pin onto the rams piston and I just let the steel piston impact against the valve, worked really well but it was also very smooth without much kick which if I read correctly kick is something that you are trying to keep with this gun. for a solenoid if you wish to simplify things a bit, alien is using a new noid that can take pressures up to 450 psi I know macdev was asking jack about the new noid and they were planning on switching to it to (he said this at nppl buffalo). If you wanted to run the operating pressure between 300-400 psi then you could get away with no lpr and that solenoid and would simplify the entire setup and tuning process. I am really not much help with this project to me it looks like fasors have tons of opportunities as lpr free poppets that can greatly benefit from pressure assisted valves, being newton style, or the traditional style, or a combination of the two, that could give it a very low operating pressure, no lpr, very low maintenance, and a very small dwell time that would help with efficiency and battery life. That would generally make a very smooth poppet style marker