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-   -   Old Spyder won't recock (http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/kingman/200814-old-spyder-wont-recock.html)

Folken 04-28-2012 05:30 PM

Old Spyder won't recock
 
Hey guys,

A friend of mine bought a used Spyder marker and asked if I could fix it because it would not recock (it would make a burrrrp noise) and had a bad leak. I narrowed the leak down to a bad cup seal which I replaced and the leak went away.

I then replaced all the o-rings on the striker, expansion chamber/expansion chamber block, and valve. I also replaced both the striker main spring and the valve spring. No luck.

I have inspected the striker and sear for wear and both look fine. I have adjusted the velocity all the way up and all the way down and everywhere in between and it still won't recock.

There is no little filter-like disk in the ASA to get oxidized so that is not it. I've tried 2 different CO2 tanks, both full. HPA is not readily available where I live.

I did notice that there is no striker guide pin. Should there be one? I'm not even sure what model it is. Is this a Spyder Classic or a Spyder One? Below are some pics.

I've googled this problem a dozen different ways and I'm still stumped. Does anybody know what could be the problem? :confused:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/...2/Untitled.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/...Untitled-1.jpg

Yomama101 04-28-2012 05:51 PM

Just checking. Fatty striker? If so the Slim striker O-ring won't work. Do you have a guide-pin you can install to eliminate that variable.
Bleed hole in the body Clear? Bumper installed aft of the striker.

Ashton S 04-28-2012 05:56 PM

That is most likely your problem.

Where exactly is the leak coming from?

*No valve burst disk?

Folken 04-28-2012 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yomama101 (Post 2323362)
Just checking. Fatty striker? If so the Slim striker O-ring won't work.

Not sure. Here's a photo of the striker and the bolt. Bolt looks aftermarket.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/..._2002/0022.jpg

Folken 04-28-2012 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashton S (Post 2323364)
That is most likely your problem.

Where exactly is the leak coming from?

Leak was from the cup seal. Fixed with a new one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yomama101 (Post 2323362)
Do you have a guide-pin you can install to eliminate that variable.
Bleed hole in the body Clear? Bumper installed aft of the striker.

I do not have a guide pin. It never had one. Not sure if it needs one?
Yes, the bumper is installed aft of the striker.
Not familiar with the bleed hole. I've only worked on a few Spyders before.

darkspidie1984 05-05-2012 08:30 AM

spyders require a little back pressure to recock. This is usually due to either lower pressure or vlave spring and main spring not keeping valve open long enough to right amount of air in to recock gun. Depending on the situation they may only recock while firing paint or with barrel off and no paint with hand over breach. This works on my 3 lp spyders.

Try these fixes in order.
1. Try finding a main spring guide if u don't have one. You may be able to improvise temporarily. Ive used macroline with a nail inside before and various shims to achieve proper velocity until I could get a new spring guide.

2. Try changeling springs with a spring kit. Light valve spring and medium main spring seems to be the magic combine for me.

Grendal50 05-05-2012 02:43 PM

also make sure there is no residue inside, My brother-in-law had a spyder that had sticky "crap" in the breech that required acetone to clean

Folken 06-09-2012 08:59 PM

Sorry for the late response. I have been trying to track down spare parts. I believe I've figured out what marker this is. I think it's a Kingman Spyder Compact P by the looks of this diagram.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/...ctPDiagram.jpg
Today I added a striker spring guide (27) and a Flat disc (27A) to the marker as well as one of the special red striker o-rings and it still burps and will not recock. I've played with the velocity adjuster again and it still won't work. I've swapped the valve spring and main springs with other stock springs and nothing. Anybody have any other ideas?

melkson 06-09-2012 09:36 PM

If there is still a copper filter in the asa or duckbill, remove it. These get fouled over the years and reduce operating pressure.

Also, try firing it with your hand over the mouth of the barrel. Sometimes old spyders require the back pressure to recock.

Another thing to try is removing the expansion chamber and running gas directly into the marker. This can help narrow down the issue.

Edit: after looking at the pic of the bolt, you have ALOT of wear from friction. The wear and whatever caused it can cause improper cocking. Maybe try a delrin bolt? If you are interested I have an ACS (anti chop bolt) new in package i'd sell ya cheap. However no promises this will resolve the issue.

The o-ring you put on the hammer, you said it was a red one, but was it for a modern hammer or a 'fatty' hammer. This WILL cause the issue you are having. I have both I could include with the bolt free.

To see if it's a 'fatty' hammer, just see if it fits down the barrel. Fatties don't

Folken 06-09-2012 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by melkson (Post 2374039)
If there is still a copper filter in the asa or duckbill, remove it. These get fouled over the years and reduce operating pressure.

Also, try firing it with your hand over the mouth of the barrel. Sometimes old spyders require the back pressure to recock.

Another thing to try is removing the expansion chamber and running gas directly into the marker. This can help narrow down the issue.

Edit: after looking at the pic of the bolt, you have ALOT of wear from friction. The wear and whatever caused it can cause improper cocking. Maybe try a delrin bolt? If you are interested I have an ACS (anti chop bolt) new in package i'd sell ya cheap. However no promises this will resolve the issue.

The o-ring you put on the hammer, you said it was a red one, but was it for a modern hammer or a 'fatty' hammer. This WILL cause the issue you are having. I have both I could include with the bolt free.

To see if it's a 'fatty' hammer, just see if it fits down the barrel. Fatties don't

Ok, I looked in the ASA and there is no copper filter, not sure what you mean by a duckbill. Do you mean the vertical adapter that the expansion chamber screws into? There is a copper disc there that can't come out. I think I read somewhere that you could soak the copper disc in something to dissolve the blockage?

I tried firing with my hand over the barrel and it didn't recock but it did seem to slow down the burping a little bit.

I swapped bolts with another I got today and that didn't change anything. It would seem I do have the fatty hammer. Looks like I need a different o-ring then?

Thanks for the help guys.


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