Paintball

[Greenmtnphantom]

No hard numbers or extensive data for you guys at this point but I did get The Prototype TPC out today and get a chance to play with it. It was about 60-65 degrees today and threatening rain.

I was using my Gargoyle chronoing in in the mid to high 270s with green madman valve spring, red CCI main spring, stock bolt, TPC and Hammer for the first two games to get a control against which to compare the performance of the ASP TPC. This setup got me about 30-35 shots per 12ie.

After the first two games I put the ASP TPC in and anticipating a velocity spike I changed to the silver CCI Main spring to counter the increased velocity. The TPC was out pretty far maybe 1 turn in from the lowest velocity setting and I was chronoing in the low to mid 270s. With this setup I was getting approximately 38 shots.

So my initial findings with this TCP are that it seems to increase efficiency approximately 10%

I should probably also note that I was using Valken paint (field grade) from the Gravity League event last weekend, approximately .679 (+/- .03).

Again this is a start of the testing. More information will be had when we get back from the Honeymoon.

Data
"Controls"- Barrel 11" CCI .686 bore, Gargoyle, Madman green valve spring, CCI P.T., Leland 12ies,
Temp:61*F
Paint: DXS field grade, ~.678-~.683 depending on how it landed in the chamber and which ball it was.
(t after a number indicates that I adjusted the TPC after that shot, 00 indicates no reading on the chrony)
Data:
ASP TPC, Silver CCI main spring
297t,287t,322t,264,277,292,296t,282,286,253,278,26 9,283,268,295,268,288,264,258,261,250,248,241,257, 295,281,257,287,276,266,257,275,267,267,238,270,21 9,222, 00
Notes: noise made at last cocking motion to indicate the end of the 12ie, after last adjustment of the TPC the TPC was out ALL THE WAY

ASP TPC Blue main Spring (TPC in about .75-1 turn)
234t,267,249,275,286,290,286,264,258,289,278,254,2 81,283,257,278,254,278,257,274,256,298,257,277,274 ,242,259,00,286,248,271,259,258,243,248,261,256,00 ,00,00,00
Notes: Last 4 shots hissed indicating end of 12ie

Everything the same as the previous test, ASP lightened Hammer in place of CCI stock hammer

00t,200t,244t,238t,246,273,277,258,268,263,266,245 ,256,273,289,266,273,278,260,263,289,261,265,00,27 7,00,00,258,288,289,284,00,00,287,289,249,274,257, 262,217,219,00,00,00

[Julien]

I like your review, but without a chrono results its kind of pointless. Hopefully you can include these after you get back from your honeymoon.

[Greenmtnphantom]

I disagree. The reason that I disagree and that I posted this preliminary information is that we can mess around all we want at a chrono range, we can post videos of how awesome something is when we are waiting x seconds between each shot to reach optimal conditions for the best possibly results. That isn't whats going to happen on the field. Sometimes even with an SC gun you auto-trigger, I double tapped a few times trying to get someone running.

Is it complete? No.

What the above does give us, which granted isn't spelled out word for word which is my bad, is supporting evidence to several peoples hypothesis and CJottowa's findings that, the open faced bolt in game situations will not provide to much pressure and destroy field grade paint in the "chamber" at field velocity, it shows that by opening up the pump face you are allowed to run a lighter main spring to reach the same velocity and it provides a hypothesis (10% increase in efficiency at similar velocity) for further testing.

[Cunha]

Info was good..I appreciate it Greenmtn.

It makes sense that a bolt that flows more freely should be at least somewhat more efficient. I think the TPC enabled the phantom velocity to have a greater adjustment range, because it changed flow as well as spring tension at the same time. On my phantom my TPC was loc tited in the rearmost position that would allow it to thread securely enough. The further back the TPC was the sooner it engaged the powertube and started to stabilize things.

[Greenmtnphantom]

Data portion of this post copied to the OP

Some Data from Yesterday. I'll keep most of my oppinions about what it means to myself for now, everyone just wants the data so they can make up their own minds anyway

"Controls"- Barrel 11" CCI .686 bore, Gargoyle, Madman green valve spring, CCI P.T., Leland 12ies,
Temp:61*F
Paint: DXS field grade, ~.678-~.683 depending on how it landed in the chamber and which ball it was.
(t after a number indicates that I adjusted the TPC after that shot, 00 indicates no reading on the chrony)
Data:
ASP TPC, Silver CCI main spring
297t,287t,322t,264,277,292,296t,282,286,253,278,26 9,283,268,295,268,288,264,258,261,250,248,241,257, 295,281,257,287,276,266,257,275,267,267,238,270,21 9,222, 00
Notes: noise made at last cocking motion to indicate the end of the 12ie, after last adjustment of the TPC the TPC was out ALL THE WAY

ASP TPC Blue main Spring (TPC in about .75-1 turn)
234t,267,249,275,286,290,286,264,258,289,278,254,2 81,283,257,278,254,278,257,274,256,298,257,277,274 ,242,259,00,286,248,271,259,258,243,248,261,256,00 ,00,00,00
Notes: Last 4 shots hissed indicating end of 12ie

Everything the same as the previous test, ASP lightened Hammer in place of CCI stock hammer

00t,200t,244t,238t,246,273,277,258,268,263,266,245 ,256,273,289,266,273,278,260,263,289,261,265,00,27 7,00,00,258,288,289,284,00,00,287,289,249,274,257, 262,217,219,00,00,00

Notes: these ones are important. As you can see there is not much of a change in the shot count when you use this hammer, I feel that some things need to be addresses to understand this. This hammer is the Prototype, I need to take it out of the gun and polish up the edges, I didn't realize how rough it was until I went to put it in the gun, I expect much better results once this is smoothed out (it's not just not shinny it's visibly rough in some spots) I would also like to mention that I have not seen anyone that has ever suggested using a lightened hammer that did not suggest a power tube with a larger ID. The larger ID is in my oppinion nessisary for the best results. The lightened hammer shortens the "dwell" enought that you are best served to increase the flow.

If bounce is your big problem this hammer will serve you very well to prevent it and add a little efficiency.

I'll get the surfaces of the bolt smoothed out and run the test again possibly this weekend.

[chopper duke]

Nish, are you going to replace the P.T. and try again and also, is ASP selling lightened hammers now?

[Greenmtnphantom]

I'm going to have a lapco #6 cut down to phantom length and run the test again when it comes in, hopefully I have results of the effects of "cleaning up the edges" well before that though.

ASP actually started working on the fluted hammer, I believe, before it started work on the new TPC, I started reviewing the TPC first because there has been so much interest in them lately. Last I heard he was putting together a machining setup to try and make it easier for him to make them (and cheaper for us to buy them )

[Greenmtnphantom]

Sorry for the double post but new information warrants it.

Have Blue of ASP informed me that the "roughness" that I am seeing shouldn't have much if any affect on the results as it's a bead blasted finish

[PB Weasel]

So not like I would expect you to know, but any news if he will be selling the hammers/tpc on his site?

[Greenmtnphantom]

I don't expect it to be and if more of a when.

The TPC in my oppinion at this point is a huge success.

The hammer is helpful but I think has a lot of potential that won't be fully realized until you really start fine tuning valve dwell. Lots of people spent a lot of time fine tuning nelsons back in the day and swore by hammers that, and lots of people have asked for these hammers. Even Carter uses a lightened hammer in the "From the Attic" Episode (#7 I think) that talks about tuning a nelson based gun. Worth noting that with a old BBA made from parts box leftovers he got 50 shots out of a 12ie, LAPCO's lightened hammer (this seems to be a direct decendent of that) was part of that setup.

That said Have Blue would be the guy to ask about if, when, and how much. You can find him on here under that name or contact him on ASP's site.