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-   -   DSP Frame review/thoughts (http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/mcb-reviews/196249-dsp-frame-review-thoughts.html)

ironchef97 03-19-2012 05:40 PM

DSP Frame review/thoughts
 
This is one of the latest offerings from our very own Dukie, see this thread for details: http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/d...-approved.html

Pics first!
http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/...m/IMG_0650.jpg
http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/...m/IMG_0731.jpg
http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/.../IMG_07531.jpg
http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/.../IMG_07522.jpg
http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/.../IMG_07341.jpg

The grip frame feels amazing. Period. it honestly fits my hand better than every frame I have ever used. Which is a lot of frames...CIP boxgun, Loo Duck, Carter Duck (both CNC and current style frames), redux, phantom M16 and .45, CCM Phantom 86* frames, Avratech R7 frame.

Dukie's frame makes me wish my boxgun and duck frames were this comfortable, damn you dukie my pistols are jealous lol :p.

The frame also points VERY naturally, although this of course varies from person to person. I love the use of the bucket changer as the backstrap of the frame, the curvature of the bucket changer is awesome. I am using my frame with hogue palmswells and pearce wraparounds, I had to cut a little bit of the pearce grip out in order to prevent the grip panels from "grabbing" the bucket changer too tightly.

Onto the trigger...

What I like about the trigger:
-Material, it is made out of stainless steel, big plus on this one. The frame will wear out before the trigger wears lol.
-I think the trigger looks awesome, looks and feels like a 1911!

What I don't like about the trigger:
-I'd like the sear tripper to be at a shallower angle, like on older carter and CIP triggers, dukie did post a video about how to alter the geometry to suit the user, so it's not really an issue.
-the trigger needs to be wider, like 1/4". Looking at the trigger, it is about 1/8", and the frame walls on both sides next to the trigger are also about 1/8". Some of that wall is needed for the setscrew that holds the trigger in place.
-I know the purpose of the narrow trigger width was to allow for the use of trigger shoes, but I think a good trigger should "speak for itself", aka a good trigger won't need a shoe. Besides, using a trigger shoe on a frame this good looking takes away from the overall look IMO.
-Also if you were to use a trigger shoe, it probably has to be one with a low overall height, as a tall trigger shoe will get in the way of pulling the trigger back all the way. There is a little room to move the trigger shoe up farther on the trigger.
-initially I did not like that the trigger pull was so short, it was designed just enough to trip the sear of the hammer. I removed the trigger stop pin, and the pull length is to my liking now.
-My trigger need polishing, I don't mind a little bit of side to side slop in my triggers, but it feels a tiny bit "gritty" when I pull. It's not bad but I think a nice polishing would make the pull smoother.

I understand the trigger had to be designed the way it was (aka without "edges" on the top sides of the trigger) due to the frame having an integrated rail. With Carter, CIP and redux frames, a rail sandwiches the trigger between the rail and the frame itself. When tuned correctly, this results in a buttery trigger pull.

Here's an RTR trigger which illustrates the "edges" that are on the trigger. I'll have to take better and more detailed pictures sometime in the future. Due to the nature of the DSP frame, I don't think edges could be incorporated into the trigger's shape.
http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/...7/100_3088.jpg


Please keep in mind that these are my opinions, does anyone else similar thoughts? Or am I just crazy?

Thank you dukie, you did a great job on the frames, and I hope my feedback may be useful for the next run!

worrptangl 03-19-2012 05:47 PM

I concur!

I also love how rounded the top/back of the grip frame is! Also the quick strip screws are recessed which is another great touch.

dukie 03-19-2012 07:43 PM

To start, thanks for all the positive points!

I originally had the trigger layed out a top plate for retention but decided to go the route of a guide pin instead. I even had a spot in the frame over top of the spring to do it. Then I messed around with the idea of a trigger like the RTR shown. At least I think thats what that is. Whoevers that is I like the stops integrated into the trigger. Nice idea. Then I went on a tangent lol.

I was trying to keep it simple overall and still achieve a sliding trigger with 1 part, that I could modify at need. The triggers are the cheapest part to reproduce in the frame, if things need to change its easy to do! The stupid pins cost me more to make lol.

One thing I did build into the trigger is space underneath. You can add brass shims under the two sliding surfaces of the trigger to smooth out the pull...... all 1/16" of it. Polish those faces (more than they are) and make an "L" shaped piece of .005" shim. drop it under the trigger before install and diddle with it until you are happy. short leg up and to the front for the front. short leg up and behind at the back. If you want to spend the time at it, it makes an unbelieveable trigger when you are done.

It wasn't a big worry in my mind since it was an extremely short pull the way I set it up. Everyones different though! its still easy to diddle around with to suit the end user though.

I designed it for a CCI shoe. I can add some depth to the trigger next time around to allow for those that like ( or need) a longer pull.

I'm not going wider, that would screw up the whole works lol. Personal preference and limitions of the tooling/pretty junk on the outside.

ironchef97 03-19-2012 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dukie (Post 2264619)
To start, thanks for all the positive points!

I originally had the trigger layed out a top plate for retention but decided to go the route of a guide pin instead. I even had a spot in the frame over top of the spring to do it. Then I messed around with the idea of a trigger like the RTR shown. At least I think thats what that is. Whoevers that is I like the stops integrated into the trigger. Nice idea. Then I went on a tangent lol.

I was trying to keep it simple overall and still achieve a sliding trigger with 1 part, that I could modify at need. The triggers are the cheapest part to reproduce in the frame, if things need to change its easy to do! The stupid pins cost me more to make lol.

One thing I did build into the trigger is space underneath. You can add brass shims under the two sliding surfaces of the trigger to smooth out the pull...... all 1/16" of it. Polish those faces (more than they are) and make an "L" shaped piece of .005" shim. drop it under the trigger before install and diddle with it until you are happy. short leg up and to the front for the front. short leg up and behind at the back. If you want to spend the time at it, it makes an unbelieveable trigger when you are done.

It wasn't a big worry in my mind since it was an extremely short pull the way I set it up. Everyones different though! its still easy to diddle around with to suit the end user though.

I designed it for a CCI shoe. I can add some depth to the trigger next time around to allow for those that like ( or need) a longer pull.

I'm not going wider, that would screw up the whole works lol. Personal preference and limitions of the tooling/pretty junk on the outside.

Yep, the picture is an RTR trigger, Carter, Redux and CIP triggers are all similar in layout and location of the pins. I should have take a picture from the back or top as well, I have several triggers like that in my collection.

Steve took the adjustable stop idea a step further with the Redux with a back stop screw that you could adjust while the trigger was installed in the frame! See the screw that's in the middle speed hole:
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/IMGP0197.jpg

Hm, that would be a good use of the brass shim stock I have lying around, I used like 5 in^2 of a 10 foot roll. Do you have pics of the way you modified your trigger with shim dukie?


Lol, I figured you couldn't go wider without redesigning the entire frame! There would be like less than 1/16" wall on both sides of the trigger if you made the trigger 1/4" wide with the existing frame?

dukie 03-19-2012 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironchef97 (Post 2264678)
Yep, the picture is an RTR trigger, Carter, Redux and CIP triggers are all similar in layout and location of the pins. I should have take a picture from the back or top as well, I have several triggers like that in my collection.

Steve took the adjustable stop idea a step further with the Redux with a back stop screw that you could adjust while the trigger was installed in the frame! See the screw that's in the middle speed hole:
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/IMGP0197.jpg

Hm, that would be a good use of the brass shim stock I have lying around, I used like 5 in^2 of a 10 foot roll. Do you have pics of the way you modified your trigger with shim dukie?


Lol, I figured you couldn't go wider without redesigning the entire frame! There would be like less than 1/16" wall on both sides of the trigger if you made the trigger 1/4" wide with the existing frame?

Yeah 1/16" is WAAAY too thin. I wanted more than the 1/8" I got for threads lol. Stupid pretty stuff! GOing to be a pain in the arse the day that rad cutter dies. Its modified up the yin yang to make those radius edges work.

No I don't have pics. I don't have any brass shim in the shop or I would have thrown some in with each one lol. Just bend an "__|" one for each end. THe short leg just keeps it from falling out, the long leg provides the bearing surface. I did it on a really crappy cocker slide years ago and made an unbelievable trigger pull. I did leave space for it as you can't just polish the top down to fit with a retainer pin. It was a CYA design decision :)

The trigger doesn't need to be modified to do this, just adding the shim and wet sanding the sliding surface if you find it still needs it.

worrptangl 03-19-2012 11:01 PM

Chef if you do this and get it to work make me a set!

On the trigger shoe side of things I really want to find out if a Shocktech trigger shoe will fit. I have all ways preferred them. They are nice and shallow also.


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