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Old 05-23-2012, 06:32 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Pro-tip on the torch: Apply the heat to the fitting and let it conduct down into the threaded area. Much less risk of damaging the aluminum part/ano. I've used this technique a few times to break red loctite.
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Old 05-23-2012, 06:34 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Nice review! I didn't have a problem removing my NPT fittings when I had #7, maybe mine had less loctite on them , it sucks that your fitting got messed up . I'm liking how the new 12-gram knob looks, and the wider trigger! And kudos to the DSP frame point...it is the best frame ever, but the R7 frame comes pretty close.
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Old 05-23-2012, 06:38 PM   #13 (permalink)
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nice writeup heinous! I commented on your video last night. I'm not a huge fan of underboring with the stock barrel - the original testing we did was with a close bore match. I've had the best result with blowtest matching. I also prefer to run longer barrels for aiming and the silence factor.

I did notice you got a bit of shootdown - you can deepen the notch on the transfer port above the nipple to lessen that effect. the port shouldn't be smooth to the point where it cuts flow completely.
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Old 05-23-2012, 06:43 PM   #14 (permalink)
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nah, i'm not going to modify anything.

ideally i'd have the freak bored stock barrel, but that is not to be. the paint i have failed the blow test for both the stock and zero barrels. i do however have an empire barrel kit, as well as a 0.697 lapco big shot, but i'd rather test out barrels that everyone else with this gun is going to have. i'll probably find a setup that works as i play and stick with it.

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Pro-tip on the torch: Apply the heat to the fitting and let it conduct down into the threaded area. Much less risk of damaging the aluminum part/ano. I've used this technique a few times to break red loctite.
no, i'm just going to not do that. i have no experience with torches, and the finish on the retro is still pristine. maybe if you're ever over i can let you try it, but purchasing and then using a torch as a beginner on something expensive whose value is partly based on its visual appeal just sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

Last edited by heinous; 05-23-2012 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 05-23-2012, 08:18 PM   #15 (permalink)
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...ok, this is not acceptable on any level...Henious got 4 stickers and I only received 2!
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Old 05-23-2012, 08:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
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You could always drill it out and have one made from stainless.
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Old 05-23-2012, 08:53 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Very nice write up heinous. The NPT fittings on mine, #2, are stuck in like yours are. I tried everything you did and no luck. I wanted to put a gauge on it but I don't want to put it in a vice and torch it to get the fitting off.

Here are my test results. I was using reballs with a .670 sizer, they were a good fit. No rollouts, not to tight. I was using a SP Freak back with a WWA mini tip and a Ty .670 brass sizer.



*the second 12gr leaked for a few seconds before I cocked the gun the first time. I feel that this is the cause of the lower shot count. I shot a ball about every 10 seconds.

My in game experiences are similar to my control tests. I usually have to change 12grs on my 4th tube. I have found that the gun shoots very deep into a 12gr. When I vent the 12gr to load a new one there is the tiniest puff of air.
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:43 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Great review, thanks man! I have a few comments of course:

-never seen a 12 gram not pierce in the Retro yet... that's a first. all the brands we've tested pierce very easily and torque/grip for the knob hasn't been a concern yet. Still, the new knobs are diamond knurled, and larger diameter (wider) so gripping and tightening should be less a concern.

-regarding efficiency: 40+ shots is possible in ideal conditions, but never guaranteed, simple as that. we've shot 45 good shots off a single charge but it doesn't happen with every gun or every kind of paint. using paint which is too tight for the barrel will give reduced efficiency due to friction as well as more chance of exploded paint.

-regarding the mark I was supposed to engrave on your top tube, and serial... I plain forgot to put the line on there before I boxed it up, the serial I'm not sure how that happened... I did serial (most) of the guns. I'll PM you about fixing that.

-transfer port: most likely the reason it distorted so badly and wouldn't come out, is using the wrong size allen key. while the whole gun is standard sizes, those bloody transfer ports are over-broached and only a metric size fits really well... and should be inserted fully into the fitting before removing or reinstalling it. the loctite is grade 242 (medium strength blue thread-locker). will consider using a PTFE sealant in the future instead so removal/replacement of those fittings is easier.


as for the comments about the delays: I held off shipping the guns for about a week when I didn't have the stamps, that was not really an issue. Actually I shouldn't really even comment about the delays as they have all been for solid reasons generally out of our control (or within the overall scope of first-run manufacturing business related challenges) and I don't regret taking the time to solve the issues and ship the guns after we figured everything out. Thankfully the technical issues with Retros amongst the owners are quite limited and isolated and all of them can be easily corrected

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Old 05-23-2012, 09:51 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Recent test...I really don't want to post since I do not have quality paint that will not break in the barrel, since Henious shot count was so low, I wanted to post up my results. I have had my R7 since Monday and have shot around 300 +/- rounds thru her.

Points extremely well, great feel on the grip frame and trigger, very light in weight, love the trigger pull...I luv it! Mostly I have just been trying to get the feel for a pistol...really my first time with a pistol.

I have been shooting Draxxus Silver paint, using the zero/.680 barrel. Not super consistent paint and not exactly round, but close. Some is from 2 months ago and some is recent. DO NOT BUY DRAXXUS SILVER, IT IS NOT GOOD!

Leland 12 gram! I am almost out of paint, Marbs did not do well. I did not size all the balls, if I was playing I would have done this. I did size 3 balls, one dropped thru the barrel, one sat on the crown and one stuck inside the barrel at the very end. Not real consistent.

RESULTS (w/o the fancy graph!)

291
291
298
288
290
274
280
299
294
260 10th shot
289
277
274
282
290
292
273
292
280
299 20th shot
280
266
285
261
264
274
270
269
260
271 30th shot
267
xxx forgot to hold up chrono
253
230
277
na probably around 200
na probably around 200
out of paint

At some point, the 12 gram leaked a little, my oldest son, Alex was shooting and it took a few seconds to tighten the 12 gram. I am more use to tighting when you hear the slight leak.

I have been getting 35+ on most 12 grams. Very fun to shoot! Alot of times right under 40.

I guess I need to turn the velocity down a little, I would probably get more shots. At first the bolt action was stiff, but it is breaking in nicely!

I am a fan!
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:11 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Great results Doug, and we are very glad you enjoy the gun, we enjoyed handling it for you and taking pictures

One more comment I wanted to add, about the pre-order thing, and I hope this is taken the right way: I hate pre-orders, and I always have. I wish the crowdsourcing had taken off a bit earlier as I would have preferred that sort of deal (which protects the buyers and the "developer" as well). I never wanted to fundraise from my customers to finance and establish a venture while also having to deliver product for that funding, but I did it anyways, because I wanted to get the ball rolling early for Avratech. It was extremely stressful and tough all around but I learned a lot from it, and now we have a team of awesome people to make it work much faster and better. Most of the financing for Avratech actually came from investors (including myself), however the greatest investment of all came from the community support here, and the hype around the pre-order, some of it negative perhaps, but I feel it all balanced out in a positive manner
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