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Old 03-21-2013, 09:11 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Very nice.


Too bad it's still ~$50.
If they make it for the UK, they have the ability to make it for the US market. I bet at a lower price point.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:25 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Just assembled the gun and tried the Redz bolt. Mine leaked like a sieve. I wouldn't try to copy what I have done. Something is definitely wrong.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I emailed GOG last week about the Firebolts and they said they are currently in the process of making them compatible with the eNMEy.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:48 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by danssoslow View Post
Let me ask here, I need to know if I F'd this bolt up. In the first pic you can see how I extended the 8 small ports. Not thinking about it, the troughs I cut into the bolt extend beyond the donut. Will this cause a leak now that they are beyond the donut?
Ya that one is ruined. where you went wrong is cutting into the raised aria near the back of the bolt. that ring is where the seal is made that separates the dump chamber and the path for the air out the bolt as far as the windows go they are basicly pointless what you need is a seal breaking point and that was a neat looking way to accomplish that but not wholly necessary to the proper operation. if you want to make the bolt lighter then the easiest way to do so would be to drill out the stalk of the bolt from the front end of the bolt.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:07 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tjd10684 View Post
Ya that one is ruined. where you went wrong is cutting into the raised aria near the back of the bolt. that ring is where the seal is made that separates the dump chamber and the path for the air out the bolt as far as the windows go they are basicly pointless what you need is a seal breaking point and that was a neat looking way to accomplish that but not wholly necessary to the proper operation. if you want to make the bolt lighter then the easiest way to do so would be to drill out the stalk of the bolt from the front end of the bolt.
It wasn't so much for lightening purposes; but to increase flow through the bolt; I increased the hell out of it, no doubt.
From pictures I had seen of the NDZ Skeleton and the L6, I assumed that the "open" portion where the bolt necks way down before the tail section was open to the breech.

I might try this again with another bolt on the 8 smaller holes; but avoid going past the donut's sealing surface. After I had messed with this bolt, I was washing it with some soap in the bathroom sink. While rinsing it, I held the breech end of the bolt as I tight as I could against the faucet's opening. If what I'm understanding about water flow is correct, there had to have been some significant gains in flow over its stock configuration. With the water turned all the way up, the water ran straight out of the holes and down the bolt. There was not enough pressure in the water to cause the water to shoot out of the holes and stream out away from the bolt. In stock form, it would spew out, like holding a thumb over a garden hose.

Thanks for replying Tom!
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:05 AM   #26 (permalink)
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According to our sources at GOG, ALL bolts (firebolt and stock in all markers) will be coming with dual tail o-rings from now on. Probably becuase they anticipate making a buttload more eNMEy's and it's easier to just have one part that works in all guns rather than two different parts with only one that works in every gun. I think it's a great move.

However, I have my doubts as to the Firebolt increasing performance much on the eNMEy because the flow path really isn't changed at all. It's lighter, which will help to make it smoother, but that's it. Without opening up the ports into the bolt face area, you're not accomplishing anything as far as an efficiency gain goes.

Modifying a stock or Firebolt by cutting out every other wall between ports might be beneficial, but it's not a large working area and you run the risk of nicking the hell out the sealing area of the stalk. I've done some pretty complex mods before but looking at this, it's something I think I'd leave to a better machinist than I.

I think our best bet here is getting TechT to remake the L6, or getting them or another company (I'm writing an email to Deadlywind about this also) to make something entirely new and different. I know Yoda900 was also talking about messing with some kind of dwell-adjustable bolt as well.

As for price, I fully understand that the L6's MSRP seems expensive for what you get. But trust me, the machining on those bolts was NOT easy, AT ALL. This isn't like cutting a new bolt for a poppet gun, where all it has to do is allow an air path to the ball. The bolt determines flow, opening rate, closing rate, pretty much EVERY facet of the performance of these guns. The L7's construction is MUCH simpler to machine, which I think was the real reason why that became the flagship model for TechT's Ion bolt lineup.

Beyond that, I'm pretty sure anyone who makes a bolt with dual o-rings owes DYE a royalty because a spool valve that automatically seals the dump chamber is covered by their patents. I'm pretty sure that's why Orange released the sprung dual-tail upgrade separately from the Nano bolts- by doing so, they got around paying DYE because the individual component was not a bolt, it was an upgrade to one and not sold with it. Personally, if there was one Ion bolt design to bring back for the eNMEy, it would probably be this one. Unfortunately the bolt stops are incompatible with the current GOG back caps and the one used for the upgrade has a cage on it to stop the stalk from plugging the donut on the forward stroke, so it's not like you can just cobble an L7 together with the Orange stalk and have something that works.

For me, I've always been more willing to pay money for upgrades to cheap guns, because the initial investment was less. If I'm paying $1500 for a marker I shouldn't HAVE to buy anything else. A $130 marker isn't going to come with every feature, but the price allows me to spend the money where I want to make the marker fit my needs, without spending money on stuff I don't want. I could easily leave my eNMEy completely stock internally with just an on/off ASA and a better barrel as it's only mods, and be happy. But I like to tinker. And tinkering has a cost.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:13 AM   #27 (permalink)
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And Dan, yes, you can't elongate those grooves, only make them longer. They do effect flow through the stop but making them longer (particularly past the o-ring on the stop) effects when air starts flowing through the bolt. If it opens too early, you're losing efficiency because the bolt isn't closed yet but still venting the dump chamber, losing air out the feedneck, around the ball before it's in the barrel, etc.

Edit: couldn't see the pic at work when I wrote this, thought you were talking about elongating the transfer grooves not the air ports. You also can't drill all the way to the transfer section as that will prevent the bolt from ever sealing anything in the dump chamber.

You can drill from the front to reduce weight, but you can't go all the way through into the transfer section. It's not easy dealing with such small holes in the air ports and normally they're drilled straight in from the front using a CNC. Managing to line them up and drill them straight or cut out the sections between them is nearly impossible for your average hobbyist. This is why in my previous post I mention that we're much better off buying a good bolt off the bat then trying to mod the not-so-nice ones.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:28 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I ordered a NDZ Skeleton bolt. Hopefully I actually get it and it works lol.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:02 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Has anyone tried an orange nano bolt with the the spring upgrade?
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:52 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dano_____ View Post
Has anyone tried an orange nano bolt with the the spring upgrade?
They're made for old style Ions, an XE version was never made. The bolt stop won't fit, and the spring won't fit due to the reduced inner diameter of the newer bolt-out-back cans. But if someone built it for the eNMEy and current crop of GOG guns, it would certainly be an excellent choice.
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