Review of the noxx55 mag-cocker barrel adapter (in-depth)

aqua_scummm · 03-13-2008, 04:57 AM

I was inspired by Sir Brass's review of the springfeed, and figured I should share my impressions of the noxx55 barrel adapter.

Ordering/Shipping

Ordering was easy, PM'ed him, got the MCB price, paypaled, and was done.

Shipping was a tad slow, to be honest. I waited something like 9 days, which isn't bad, but I thought it would have been quicker since it was an in-stock item. Not a big problem to stress about, but had I known I'd have to skip an extra weekend with it, I would have paid an extra $5 or so to get it faster. However, I have just one mag barrel, so my desperation was higher.

No complaints, just a heads up.

The adapter came well protected in bubble wrap and a padded envelope, IIRC. Maybe it was a box.. don't know, but it was more than fine arriving.

First Impressions

The barrel adapter looked well made, and clean. It had the look of a finished product, something you don't usually get when you have someone's first run of a product, or someone who has recently started making PB equipment. It's annodized black, for a nice finish. I didn't think I would care about that, but I do now. The adapter when used on a minimag sticks into the milled gills/windows, and since most barrels are black, you don't see much transition from adapter to barrel. If it were raw aluminum and I had a brass or black barrel, or even a colored one, it would look much worse, so good job noxx55, on annodizing them.

The groove is a standard T groove, for left and right feed. Works wonderfully in my left feed (hopper right powerfeed) marker.

It comes with a non-AGD wire detent, or so it seems. It certainly sticks into the bore more than my AGD wire detents and AGD plastic detents. Not really an issue with chopping though, I used RPS marballizers, zap chronic, and tournament grade zap chronic with no issues arising from the detent, as far as I can tell. I did get some chops, but I think I out shot my gravity feed hopper. I'm not going to guarantee it didn't chop the balls, but it seemed like the ball was chopped halfway into the breech, instead of in the bore.

There were some improvements I would suggest though. The wire detent slot barely makes it to the second barrel O ring, and that O ring is barely holding the detent down. On my AGD barrels, the detent grove goes about 1.5 mm past the second O-ring, and there is some obvious overlap where the detent is visible on the far side of the O ring. The edge of noxx55's detent is just barely under the second O-ring.

The O-rings shipped with the adapter were non standard, as well. Instead of the firmer, thicker, polyurethane O-rings, noxx55's adapter shipped with thinner buna O-rings. The buna ones were to thin. You can do the old-school trick of putting a line of electrical tape under them to make them stick out more, but I just swapped for some AGD-spec O-rings I had on another barrel. The buna ones feel softer too, and may wear out faster with repeated friction from barrel adapter removal. Because they were thinner, my 14" barrel had about 2-3 mm of play with the stock O-rings. With fresh AGD-spec O-rings, there was no play, and the barrel held firm, as it should.

On-field use, and after play observations.

On the field, the adapter worked wonderfully with my J&J ceramic barrel. It fit well, with no need for a barrel O-ring or any other method used to tighten up cocker threaded barrels. I haven't tried other barrels yet, but it seems to be well-threaded. Inserting the adapter is easy, and because I have hopper right powerfeed (or standard left feed), tightening the barrel threads is the same direction as rotating the adapter into position.

Removing the barrel is pretty easy, too. I can either unscrew 1/2 turn to lock the adapter into place for right feed, and then unscrew the barrel, or I can turn 1/4 and pull the whole assembly out. See afterthoughts/suggestions on some notes on this though.

After one day of play, the anno in the T-groove for the twist lock pin is completely worn away. The important inner bore and external anno is fine, just the part with lots of rubbing. I hope the anno on the whole unit lasts, but my AGD ones didn't wear this quickly.

Also, at the junction of the T groove, there is a dent where the pin is denting the aluminum up, as if to make a + instead of a T, and a small lip is forming. I'm not that hard when inserting the barrel, and my AGD ones don't suffer this, but my AGD ones have deeper grooves, which would likely hold against damage better. Perhaps it would be better to mill the twist lock groove deeper?

Afterthoughts and suggestions

First off, thanks noxx55 for making this. It works wonderfully. Please understand all criticism is not negative, for your first run of these you did quite well! As with all products though, there is room for improvement.

The adapter was worth the $35 or so paid.

The adapter is easy to use, looks pretty good in the minimag windows/gills, and holds well. Cocker barrels work as advertised. Removing barrels for cleaning is easy enough, though can be improved.

Correct sizing/material of the O-rings would be appreciated on future runs. The smaller ones may work with some mags, but not mine.

Please mill the groove for the detent farther back and have the detent run fully under the second O-ring. No problems from this yet, but there might be in the future.

It would be helpful if there was a bit of a dent at the junction of the T groove, for removing the barrel. Something just to give tangible feedback of when the barrel is centered and ready to be pulled outward. Not really a big deal

Perhaps mill the grove deeper, and slant the entry of the groove more? This would add complexity to the milling, but inserting the barrel isn't as easy as AGD's, and the dent at the junction wouldn't arise. Once again, not really a big deal, but would make a sweet product even sweeter.

I don't like pulling on the cocker threads, especially when the barrel is slightly loosened from untwisting it from position. Cocker threads seem so weak and useless. If you were to sell them at $20 a pop, I would order at least 3 and just (semi-permanently) loc-tite in my favorite barrels. I know that's a big price drop, but hopefully there will be more demand and more made for lower costs.

Overall I would recommend this to any maggot, hopefully generation 2 will see some slight improvements, but I was already pleasantly surprised for the price, and would readily order again.

Update 4/16
After much more use, the anno has held up very well, which is great, as the whole thing still looks fresh. It still holds firm, I have used more barrels in it with no issues with threading thus far, and still no chop problems arising from wire detents or anything. The chops listed above were just outshooting my hopper.

So I am still very happy, and am on the pre-order list for the next batch at at least 2, I might upgrade to 3

mobiusmorte · 03-13-2008, 09:45 AM

Nice review. Thanks

noxx55 · 03-13-2008, 10:03 AM

Nice review man and thanks for the offers on improvement. Those will definitely be made on future ones. I really appreciate the extensive review and criticism. Phatty123 did a review on AO as well. Glad you're enjoying it. If the demand goes up, the price will go down. I will be doing another preorder for these and the price will be low for those that preorder. I will definitely order polyurethane Orings next time. Not to sharp on the oring stuff yet but I am getting more educated as time goes on. Thanks!!!

cockerpunk · 03-13-2008, 01:25 PM

cocker threads are actually some of the strongest threads BTW. most of the time, finer threads are better than big course threads, becuase they harken back to a friction or interference fit. not true in all cases, but most of the time fine threads are stronger.

aqua_scummm · 03-13-2008, 03:44 PM

It's never good to pull on a threaded item that isn't all the way in, though, like when I remove the barrel from it's left feed side...

kidneythief · 03-13-2008, 03:57 PM

Its not going to hurt the threads unless there is only 2 or three catching. If your talking about pulling on it when its unthreaded a turn or two then you'll be fine.

-Jake

Phantom Mikey · 03-13-2008, 08:22 PM

It would also be nice if you (noxx) could do a round of adapters that will fit my Stiffi barrels. I guess the thread tolerances for Stiffi barrels are at the end of the range, as I had problems with other adapters also.

noxx55 · 03-13-2008, 08:55 PM

Have you tried one of your stiffi barrels in one of my adapters? I figured all cocker barrels would fit. I may be wrong though.

Phantom Mikey · 03-13-2008, 08:59 PM

Yes, they don't quite fit. I had the same problem with Doc's adapters, until eventually someone sold me one that would accept the Stiffi threads. But it's not a nice pretty black one.

aqua_scummm · 03-14-2008, 03:31 AM

Depending on how ballsy you want to be, maybe gently hit the stiffi threads with sandpaper? GENTLY?

03-13-2008, 04:57 AM	#1 (permalink)
aqua_scummm MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,417	Review of the noxx55 mag-cocker barrel adapter (in-depth) I was inspired by Sir Brass's review of the springfeed, and figured I should share my impressions of the noxx55 barrel adapter. Ordering/Shipping Ordering was easy, PM'ed him, got the MCB price, paypaled, and was done. Shipping was a tad slow, to be honest. I waited something like 9 days, which isn't bad, but I thought it would have been quicker since it was an in-stock item. Not a big problem to stress about, but had I known I'd have to skip an extra weekend with it, I would have paid an extra $5 or so to get it faster. However, I have just one mag barrel, so my desperation was higher. No complaints, just a heads up. The adapter came well protected in bubble wrap and a padded envelope, IIRC. Maybe it was a box.. don't know, but it was more than fine arriving. First Impressions The barrel adapter looked well made, and clean. It had the look of a finished product, something you don't usually get when you have someone's first run of a product, or someone who has recently started making PB equipment. It's annodized black, for a nice finish. I didn't think I would care about that, but I do now. The adapter when used on a minimag sticks into the milled gills/windows, and since most barrels are black, you don't see much transition from adapter to barrel. If it were raw aluminum and I had a brass or black barrel, or even a colored one, it would look much worse, so good job noxx55, on annodizing them. The groove is a standard T groove, for left and right feed. Works wonderfully in my left feed (hopper right powerfeed) marker. It comes with a non-AGD wire detent, or so it seems. It certainly sticks into the bore more than my AGD wire detents and AGD plastic detents. Not really an issue with chopping though, I used RPS marballizers, zap chronic, and tournament grade zap chronic with no issues arising from the detent, as far as I can tell. I did get some chops, but I think I out shot my gravity feed hopper. I'm not going to guarantee it didn't chop the balls, but it seemed like the ball was chopped halfway into the breech, instead of in the bore. There were some improvements I would suggest though. The wire detent slot barely makes it to the second barrel O ring, and that O ring is barely holding the detent down. On my AGD barrels, the detent grove goes about 1.5 mm past the second O-ring, and there is some obvious overlap where the detent is visible on the far side of the O ring. The edge of noxx55's detent is just barely under the second O-ring. The O-rings shipped with the adapter were non standard, as well. Instead of the firmer, thicker, polyurethane O-rings, noxx55's adapter shipped with thinner buna O-rings. The buna ones were to thin. You can do the old-school trick of putting a line of electrical tape under them to make them stick out more, but I just swapped for some AGD-spec O-rings I had on another barrel. The buna ones feel softer too, and may wear out faster with repeated friction from barrel adapter removal. Because they were thinner, my 14" barrel had about 2-3 mm of play with the stock O-rings. With fresh AGD-spec O-rings, there was no play, and the barrel held firm, as it should. On-field use, and after play observations. On the field, the adapter worked wonderfully with my J&J ceramic barrel. It fit well, with no need for a barrel O-ring or any other method used to tighten up cocker threaded barrels. I haven't tried other barrels yet, but it seems to be well-threaded. Inserting the adapter is easy, and because I have hopper right powerfeed (or standard left feed), tightening the barrel threads is the same direction as rotating the adapter into position. Removing the barrel is pretty easy, too. I can either unscrew 1/2 turn to lock the adapter into place for right feed, and then unscrew the barrel, or I can turn 1/4 and pull the whole assembly out. See afterthoughts/suggestions on some notes on this though. After one day of play, the anno in the T-groove for the twist lock pin is completely worn away. The important inner bore and external anno is fine, just the part with lots of rubbing. I hope the anno on the whole unit lasts, but my AGD ones didn't wear this quickly. Also, at the junction of the T groove, there is a dent where the pin is denting the aluminum up, as if to make a + instead of a T, and a small lip is forming. I'm not that hard when inserting the barrel, and my AGD ones don't suffer this, but my AGD ones have deeper grooves, which would likely hold against damage better. Perhaps it would be better to mill the twist lock groove deeper? Afterthoughts and suggestions First off, thanks noxx55 for making this. It works wonderfully. Please understand all criticism is not negative, for your first run of these you did quite well! As with all products though, there is room for improvement. The adapter was worth the $35 or so paid. The adapter is easy to use, looks pretty good in the minimag windows/gills, and holds well. Cocker barrels work as advertised. Removing barrels for cleaning is easy enough, though can be improved. Correct sizing/material of the O-rings would be appreciated on future runs. The smaller ones may work with some mags, but not mine. Please mill the groove for the detent farther back and have the detent run fully under the second O-ring. No problems from this yet, but there might be in the future. It would be helpful if there was a bit of a dent at the junction of the T groove, for removing the barrel. Something just to give tangible feedback of when the barrel is centered and ready to be pulled outward. Not really a big deal Perhaps mill the grove deeper, and slant the entry of the groove more? This would add complexity to the milling, but inserting the barrel isn't as easy as AGD's, and the dent at the junction wouldn't arise. Once again, not really a big deal, but would make a sweet product even sweeter. I don't like pulling on the cocker threads, especially when the barrel is slightly loosened from untwisting it from position. Cocker threads seem so weak and useless. If you were to sell them at $20 a pop, I would order at least 3 and just (semi-permanently) loc-tite in my favorite barrels. I know that's a big price drop, but hopefully there will be more demand and more made for lower costs. Overall I would recommend this to any maggot, hopefully generation 2 will see some slight improvements, but I was already pleasantly surprised for the price, and would readily order again. Update 4/16 After much more use, the anno has held up very well, which is great, as the whole thing still looks fresh. It still holds firm, I have used more barrels in it with no issues with threading thus far, and still no chop problems arising from wire detents or anything. The chops listed above were just outshooting my hopper. So I am still very happy, and am on the pre-order list for the next batch at at least 2, I might upgrade to 3 __________________ My choice is what I chose to do, and if I'm causin' no harm, it shouldn't bother you. Your choice is who you chose to be, and if you're causin' no harm, then you're alright with me. Last edited by aqua_scummm; 04-16-2008 at 03:25 AM.

03-13-2008, 09:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
mobiusmorte MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 405	Nice review. Thanks __________________ My curent collection: Apex, SMG-68, Vector, Classic Intimidator (x2), Clamshell Intimidator, Angel LCD, M98c, F-4 (x2), an F-2, Eagle .68, Shoebox Shocker, SFT Shocker, Ion, X-Blade Vengeance, e-Blade Vengeance, e-Blade Orracle, Mech Vengeance, Sydarm, Nova, SuperNova, .68 Special, M3 Dragun, Spyder Imagine, Tiberius T9, E-Mag, Pro-Lite, A5, NME LE, NME, Tactical Ion, Knoxx Pistol and a Knoxx Rifle 34 and growing.... Ted Stevens of Alaska, senior Republican on the Senate Appropriations Committee “I think we need to get people to understand that we’re at war.” http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/f...tml#post147894

03-13-2008, 01:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
cockerpunk MCB Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,203	cocker threads are actually some of the strongest threads BTW. most of the time, finer threads are better than big course threads, becuase they harken back to a friction or interference fit. not true in all cases, but most of the time fine threads are stronger. __________________ the ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability. >>PAINTBALL SCIENCE!<< "Originally posted by Garbageman705: Arguing with Cockerpunk is like fighting a kitten. Your going to kick his *** ."

03-13-2008, 03:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
aqua_scummm MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,417	It's never good to pull on a threaded item that isn't all the way in, though, like when I remove the barrel from it's left feed side... __________________ My choice is what I chose to do, and if I'm causin' no harm, it shouldn't bother you. Your choice is who you chose to be, and if you're causin' no harm, then you're alright with me.

03-13-2008, 03:57 PM	#6 (permalink)
kidneythief Lord humungus the Mod Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Home Finally!!! Posts: 2,372	Its not going to hurt the threads unless there is only 2 or three catching. If your talking about pulling on it when its unthreaded a turn or two then you'll be fine. -Jake __________________ "I wish simply to be a decent person, yet I will always fear the retards" -Brian Hindt(geech) "Every man knows he is, basically, a complete sissy compared to Johnny Cash." - Bono LPPC member #24 MCB Moderator Machinist for hire Kidney Machine

03-13-2008, 08:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
Phantom Mikey MCB Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 387	It would also be nice if you (noxx) could do a round of adapters that will fit my Stiffi barrels. I guess the thread tolerances for Stiffi barrels are at the end of the range, as I had problems with other adapters also. __________________ <---That's the most demanding cat you'll ever meet.

03-13-2008, 08:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
Phantom Mikey MCB Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 387	Yes, they don't quite fit. I had the same problem with Doc's adapters, until eventually someone sold me one that would accept the Stiffi threads. But it's not a nice pretty black one. __________________ <---That's the most demanding cat you'll ever meet.

03-14-2008, 03:31 AM	#10 (permalink)
aqua_scummm MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,417	Depending on how ballsy you want to be, maybe gently hit the stiffi threads with sandpaper? GENTLY? __________________ My choice is what I chose to do, and if I'm causin' no harm, it shouldn't bother you. Your choice is who you chose to be, and if you're causin' no harm, then you're alright with me.

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