Paintball

[Heebs]

Well I finally made it back to America. YAY!

I have both the Boxgun and Redux sitting on my couch so I decided to take a short comparison between the two before I ship the Boxgun off to Shoot To Thrill.

I will update this when I put some paint and air through them tomorrow

Some things to note:
The Boxgun has been used by at least one owner prior to my possession. I have not taken this gun to the field nor will I have the opportunity to.

The Redux is BRAND NEW. Straight from VKC not a pre-used gun.





Outside Appearances:
The Boxgun is about 2 inches shorter than the Redux. This causes the Boxgun to feel more "pistolish" than the Redux. For me it feels a bit cramped with the Boxgun having my pump hand so close to the grip frame. The Redux feels more like a full size pump gun.

The Boxgun is... well... more "boxy" than the Redux. The Boxgun is taller and looks beefier where the Redux is more sleek and slim.

The Redux feels as though it weighs more as the longer length places more weight towards the front when held with one hand. The Boxgun however does seem heavier when placed in the palm of your hand although the shorter size seems to position the weight directly over your grip giving you the illusion of a lighter gun.


Edit:
I find that the Boxgun fits my hand better than the Redux and oddly enough it feels better in my left hand than my right hand (Im a righty). I think that because I have large palms some new grips will fix this issue. I also wear gloves while I play so I doubt I will notice it too much.

Edit 2:
The Redux will just barely fit a regular barrel blocker. The Boxgun will need its own large style BB.


Pump Stroke:
The Redux has a noticeably smoother pump stroke. The Boxgun stroke is much stiffer. Mongo told me that the Redux was shooting 270 when it left VKC and I assume that the Boxgun is shooting a similar speed. I can guess that respringing the Boxgun and Redux will both lead to a smoother pump stroke and breaking the Redux in should make an even easier pump stroke. The Boxgun has a very hefty return spring as well which adds to the pump stroke difficulty.

Fit and Finish:
The Redux is definitely more complex (body milling and so forth not actual function) than the Boxgun so much that you would initially assume that the Redux was a more polished gun. In reality both Mongo and Carter are master craftsmen when it comes to their respective guns. Neither gun has a drop of "cheap feel" to them. You come away from both feeling extremely satisfied with the quality of workmanship that went into their creation.

Trigger:
The Boxgun trigger is definitely more responsive and snappier on the return than the Redux. With a few adjustments I believe I can get the Redux trigger to be more to my liking.

If I had to describe the trigger action of each.
Boxgun - Very light, crisp return, almost like a click.
Redux - Feels "mushy" - not as smooth.

Edit: I've pulled the trigger on the Redux a few hundred times, the action is definitely softening up to be an easier pull and less mush too it, the return is also getting better.

Edit 2: After a few thousand trigger pulls I am much happier with the trigger action. It's softer than the Boxgun and not quite as clicky on the return.

12 Gram Knob:

The Boxgun has fewer threads on the 12 gram knob than the Redux does. This leads about just under half the number of turns needed to screw in or out the 12gram on the Boxgun vs the Redux

I will update this when I put some paint and air through them tomorrow

Overall Impressions:
Overall if I had to pick one over the other... I'd definitely go with the Redux. While both guns are amazing pieces of work, the Redux just seems to have more character to it. In my opinion it seems more refined than the Boxgun. In comparison the Redux has the looks, you cannot help but marvel at the precision of how the extended grip mates with the slide. Efficiency test to come, though I do believe the Redux will win out due to the fact that I can match paint and I cannot with the Boxgun. I do have some incredibly old paint that is probably swollen that will help the bore issue with the Boxgun

Shooting:
I managed to find ONE 12 gram I had still kicking around my house and so I figured I'd shoot a few reballs through the Redux to see how she felt.

The Freak bored barrel is a GOD SEND. I had ONE rollout using Reballs and a .679 insert. There are rumors about Carter boring his barrels out but nothing concrete and it seems to be by special request only. This alone "one ups" any Carter produced in my book. Mr. Carter, if you're reading this, please bore out your barrels for freak inserts or create a barrel kit for your Boxguns and Ducks!

The Redux has an odd sound signature to it. I am used to the Phantom's noise and the Redux sounded like it was out of air when I first started shooting.

Because I don't have a chronograph (someone sell/lend me one please!) my "efficiency" test isn't all that helpful. I did fire over 40 rounds through the redux on a single 12 gram. Again, this doesn't say much as I have no idea the speeds that I was shooting towards the end. I was happy that the Redux shot deep into the 12 gram and when it finally gave out only a small chuff was heard. I will get some solid efficiency numbers this weekend when I hit a field.

The trigger seemed to release the sear late in the pull, I'll have to open her up and take a look see if there is anything I can do to adjust that. I might have to go bug JKW for some ideas on this.

I did have a lot of trouble with double feeds/partial feeds. Part of this will change when I get some larger sized paint, the reballs are just too small and stack up above the feed hole. I also need to get used to the offset feedtube.

[DSA]

Welcome home Bro. I wish you had a chrono for your tests. Go easy on the grape juice (wink). Tell me how those skull grips fit the redux do they hang off like on your box gun.

[Cunha]

Sounds good.

I think itd be better to compare a desert duck to the redux since the boxgun is so dissimilar. You would end up with similar comments on the carter desert duck and the boxgun.

[Heebs]

Originally Posted by Cunha

Sounds good.

I think itd be better to compare a desert duck to the redux since the boxgun is so dissimilar. You would end up with similar comments on the carter desert duck and the boxgun.

Working on that...

Some pics added, I'll get better ones when the sun comes out.

[CamoDeafie]

Hmm interesting...is the Redux a bore drop compared to the Boxgun? I do wonder if its possible to get a boxgun styled pump handle for my nelly.. both looks sweet regardless

[Heebs]

Originally Posted by CamoDeafie

Hmm interesting...is the Redux a bore drop compared to the Boxgun? I do wonder if its possible to get a boxgun styled pump handle for my nelly.. both looks sweet regardless

The Redux moves the entire slide and feedtube back as you pump the gun and then dropping the ball in pretty much the same way a Phantom works.

You can end up with two balls over the feed hole so you have to have a decisive action or you can risk double feeding. I'll test this out when I get some daylight after I drive down to Yorktown to pick up a car... oh joy...

[idkfa]

Thanks for the review! This makes me even more excited that I just order my Box Gun.

[Shiba-Kun]

Originally Posted by Cunha

Sounds good.

I think itd be better to compare a desert duck to the redux since the boxgun is so dissimilar. You would end up with similar comments on the carter desert duck and the boxgun.

Owning both original DD's and CIP Boxguns, I'd have to agree with you.

- DD reloading is done at an angle, Box is straight up-n-down like a 007 or PGP. Box = faster reloading and quicker sighting in snap shooting situations has been my experience.

- DD's with the forward counter weight most definitely feels front heavier while the Box is more buttend oriented.

- Because of the heavier slide the DD's tend to move forward and back to some degree (even with the internal spring over the barrel, inside of the pump handle). I never liked the idea of taking a shot with the slide not all the way forward, especially if you like shooting "handgun style" with a two handed grip.

[Heebs]

Originally Posted by Shiba-Kun

- Because of the heavier slide the DD's tend to move forward and back to some degree (even with the internal spring over the barrel, inside of the pump handle). I never liked the idea of taking a shot with the slide not all the way forward, especially if you like shooting "handgun style" with a two handed grip.

Boxguns are "more common" so it's a decent place to start doing a comparisson. I do agree with you though that the comparrison isn't "fair" as the Redux was designed off the DD, not the Boxgun. Want to loan me a DD to compare it to?

The Redux slide stays forward without the need of a hand holding it there. There is no slide slop that would cause a double feed. I'll try running with it today and see if that action causes any movement.

[Heebs]

I got to take some shots over the chrono tonight. I'll post results in a min.

Okay here we go:

I shot a few 12 grams through the Redux and got some weird results.

The shots basically went like this:

First shot read as 300 fps. As I kept shooting the first 10 balls, the velocity dropped drastically down to the low 200's. By the time I got to the next 10 balls it was shooting barely above 200. The paint sucked to be sure with a super hard shell but it should of fit pretty well with the barrel, I'll go double check the fit in a minute.

Also I had some serious issues with double feeding. Half the time a 2nd ball would get half loaded into the breech, you really have to have a decisive pump action in order to get it to load one ball.

The trigger also would stick after I fired each shot, this happened pretty consistently, I'm not sure what I can do to fix this, I wish the sear would trip earlier in the pull to avoid this.