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Old 08-10-2009, 09:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Redux Factory's Efficiency Mods

Disclaimer: I have not had access to a chrony yet, as I got the Dux back today, so this is done via "eyeballin'."

Dux owners, I present to you a miracle!

One of the more universal complaints synonymous with the Redux was, "Why can I only get 20 shots?" Well, with the generous help from every pumper's friend Steve "mOngo" Brett, problem solved! At least for me at this point.

First, a little back story. My Redux, number R022, was always cursed with efficiency problems. At first, I got about 2 tubes at 260ish. I expected a bit more (logic told me since it was Phantom-based, it should get more [I now know better, due to the Ducks' and Duxes' design]), so I tweaked with the springing. I don't know WHAT I did, but after that point, even going back to the original springing, I couldn't even eek 20 USABLE shots out of her. After many threads asking for help and many hours trying myself to fix her, and after a few failed games, I gave up and sent her to mOngo. Shoulda done that from the start, but I kinda wanted to see if I could fix it myself. Probably not a smart thing to do with a gun that cost me $1,110.

Either way, my Redux is heading over to mOngo. After a week or so of this and that after it arrives, he says he took it to a field and tried to tune it, and thinks he figured out the problem. He suspected that if he bored out the valve chamber a bit, he thinks efficiency would go up. Kind of a bit opposite of what most 12 grammers think, but let me tell you, it worked! A few more weeks go by, and soon I get her back. I throw a 12g in there and see what happens.

Spring combo: red main, red valve, TPC backed out all the way. The velocity was so high it shredded the ball. This is a good thing to me as I had trouble getting it to 280 regardless of spring combo! I'm ecstatic! I went to tune it, but realized my spring kit was gone, so I threw my 'cocker's mainspring into the Dux. It was probably a medium 'cocker spring, but it was a few MM shorter than the Phantom springs, so I'd call it a light Phantom spring, or just a bit heavier than that.

Now, since I didn't have the proper springing, I did the best with what I had. I turned the TPC in all the way, until it smacked the valve on the pump stroke, then backed it out a bit. With the red valve spring and a medium-ish 'cocker spring, TPC turned in, I guesstimated she was shooting at 230-240 FPS. Probably good enough to do an efficiency test. I used a .684 Freak insert and rather old paint.

Here's the fun part: I got 4 tubes out of one 12ie at about that velocity! An eyeballed breakdown: just south of 30 shots at full velocity, and started dying during the 4th tube. But I didn't get the "your 12ie is empty" valve fart until a few shots after the end of the 4th tube, so it was still going! If I had proper Phantom springs, and a chance to tune her at a chrono, I guesstimate I could eek out probably 25 shots at full velocity (260-275 is my preferred velocity), and easily get 3 usable tubes of paint! I can't wait to get official results, of which I'll update this thread with. I need to get a new spring kit first.

Side note: I also had a problem with the cup seals stripping out on mine. Steve popped a new Delrin/brass hybrid one on mine that is supposed to remedy this. I'm not touching it, but we'll see what it's capable of!

Pics:

Valve boring:




Cup seal:



My purty Redux (full pics are ALWAYS necessary):

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Last edited by Magoo; 09-09-2009 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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nice i'll have to take a trip to the redux factory as soon as the slammers are ready and hopefully have some work done on mine. i didn't have problems with the cup seal stripping but instead it kept unthreading.
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Congrats, great news..... Not gonna touch mine but that really is fantastic news.
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Old 08-11-2009, 03:00 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I think with my dux, in a real game I could get upwards of 28+ shots.

'lovin it.
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:01 AM   #5 (permalink)
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To be honest, I feel I'm estimating kinda low on my potential shot count. That way, I'll be satisfied if it turns out to be like that, but even happier if there's more!
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Old 08-14-2009, 12:53 AM   #6 (permalink)
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That's mOngo's principle! I find myself agreeing for the most part. I'd rather have fewer shots going exactly where I want them vs. a bunch of shots that are, well, a bunch of shots. The thing is, I had a VERY hard time eeking out 17 shots period, but now I can get 2 tubes with great consistency at full velocity! I can probably get 3 tubes at useable velocities!

I'm going to a big game Sept. 4th. I'll be sure to get a full on performance testing there!
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Wazzup, muthalickaz!

Just got back from a scenario game this weekend. Not the one previously mentioned, but same general time-frame . After some spring-tweaking, I can happily report that this mod has gone FAR beyond successful! I got 35 shots, count 'em, 35 shots off of my Redux! At velocity! This mod has DOUBLED the efficiency of my Redux! Consistency was not so hot, at spikes and dips of +/- 15 FPS, but I used an overly large (but the smallest I had ) Freak insert with moderate paint (Premium). Man, paint is getting small, the bore I had was a .684...
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:14 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm getting a solid 20 shots and I'm loven every bit of mine
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:19 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I was just ticked that I was getting roll-outs with a .684! C'mon, paint companies! Stop it!
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:20 AM   #10 (permalink)
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.684 is huge! were getting .679 rollouts out here
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