Paintball

[Paintballfiend]

I know that autocockers wheren't the same after K2 took over. So, what king of year/model should I look into for a good performing cocker?
Thanks,
PBfiend

[Cunha]

K2 didnt really do much to change the autococker at all..so that isnt really an issue. Most of the time, what autococker you own and shoot really depends on what it looks like and how you like to have one set up.

Theres a thread here 4 cocker for sale 2 05's 2 superbolts with 2 05 autocockers that would perform GREAT - strait out of k2's factory and really wouldnt need much if anything at all besides a good barrel to perform superbly.

Older autocockers used to include non adjustable regulators for the pneumatics, on those guns the regulator is all that really needs to be replaced for one that is adjustable - it makes tuning alot easier.

For 200 dollars its hard to beat a gun like that. There are alot of nice autocockers out there but really what makes one worth more than the other comes down to a desirable body style, and then often times various pneumatics and regulators make one worth more than the other.

So find one that you think looks nice, and then make sure it works nice..and then you have a good gun to keep around.

Autocockers havent changed at all since k2 owned WGP.

The only really big thing they did was make the trilogy line of autocockers and those can work great too.

[Tallen702]

Originally Posted by Cunha

Autocockers havent changed at all since k2 owned WGP.

The only really big thing they did was make the trilogy line of autocockers and those can work great too.

See, I have to disagree with this, I've been a huge fan of 'cockers since the mind '90's when I first started using them in tournaments. While things like the pro-stock 'cockers haven't changed so much, the Trillogy line, the Black Magic line, and now the SE are all huge divergences from the original autococker. The Trilly's lack of a separate, upgradeable 3-way and not having a timing rod stock really marks it down as cheap in my book. The 3-way (4-way for the purists out there) is probably one of the most important parts of the marker as it is essential to the timing process and the adjustment properties allow for a wider range of firing styles. Selling me something that I can't properly tune for my own use just doesn't sit well with me.

The new SE (Worrlord) uses plastic body panels and a turtle-cocker style sled rather than a back-block, same with the new black-magics. The ram and solenoid are no longer attached to a front-block but directly to the frame, and are one single unit with no upgradebility. The pump arm is also internal. While I don't think it's necessarily a BAD thing, it definitely is a HUGE divergence from a series of markers that became famous for their upgrading quality and individuality. I'd like to take a minute here to quote DeTrevni and say, "Back Blocks ROCK!"

That is all.

[Railgun]

But as an intro to cockers there's nothing really that wrong with the Trilogys. You just need to time the fire point to the built in 3way. Yes you don't have as much capability to adjust things but it's not that bad. And when you're done and move on to a fully adjustable one then the Trilly's make a great pump gun...

But you're right in that it's nice to upgrade a lot of the stuff.

The good news is that WGP seems to still make a lot of nice stuff and there's a heap of good stuff on the used side for cheap. It seems that I could not have gotten into paintball at a better time. Lots of the old school mechanical stuff that I like but the low prices of the mass produced electric stuff has dragged down the prices on the older stuff as well. And the other big cause is the legal issues from SP and WGP that have recently caused a lot of blowout sales on both some models of Emarker as well as the autocockers. I gather ANS is a very good name in the autococker market and they are blowing out the last of their line for CHEAP these days.

[Cunha]

You can get a 4 way rod with adjustability for the trilogy's.

With the trilly - I am simply looking at the worste possible example of K2's divergence with the cocker and trying to say it is decent, and I really feel it is. The ram is decent enough, id upgrade the LPR, and with an adjustable timing rod the 4 way is perfectly fine too, heck, it could even be polished and modified that way instead of simply replaced as with earlier autocockers.

Either way - I am looking at the real autocockers that K2 still makes. I wasnt thinking about their halfblock style guns and guns with unique components with imbetted things like LPRs and rams. The current "superstock" autococcker comes with an adjustable LPR <perfectly good for any application> a decent but non fancy ram, and a 4 way that gets the job done. It really doesnt need anything, and is indeed a better gun from the factory than a 1999 STO autococker, besides the fact that the STO would have included a slider.

Right now I am positive that K2 is just trying to find a way into the real game again. People dont so much look at the WGP high end guns and consider them a high end gun. They dont have very good resale value at all and that reflects very much about the way the gun is percieved, and how many people want one.

I still have a hard time considering any WGP made autococker for my own uses because I hate their crappy feedneck design so passionately. Why have a centerfeed if the thing is going to sit almost higher than my right feed. But im grasping at the wind if i ever imagined that WGP would start making their cockers with decent (see AKA threaded) feednecks.

[Slowcode]

I have shot cockers long before they were cockers (i.e. Snipers used to be sent into the factory to be converted).

A short answer would be: try to find a inexpensive 2k body sniper or cocker. Front pneumatics can be changed and parts are very cheap and easy to find. Timing is a learned art but not that hard. Pre 2k have the insert sleeve style velocity adjuster and I find them a pain when using Nelson springs. I would stay away from the trilogy line unless money is an issue. There is no resale what so ever for them and the way they are made makes them less modular then stock cockers. They were intended to be a VERY budget minded alternative.

Once you understand and appreciate the workings of a cocker then it will make you want a blazer all that more. The blazer works the same but addresses all of the little flaws that WGP didn't. The new line of things they are making seem to be a quick fix targeted to the "agg" kiddies. Unless they drop a bomb of a marker I dont see WGP getting back on top in the tourney scene. The should take this as a fact and move more into the affordable and reliable scenario market. But who am I. I've only watched hundreds of paintball companies come and go...

[Tallen702]

I think they've got a chance with the SE/Worrlord if they play their cost-cards right. No one wants to pay $1200 for a 'cocker anymore since they can pick them up for cheap on whatever paintball site they choose to visit for the day. K2 HAS been very consumer cost conscious over the past several years and I think that they'll be able to get back into the game IF they don't mess with the marker too much and allow good engineering minds to do their work well. The SE looks promising. While I'm not a huge fan of it so far due to the fact that it has diverged from the old-school aspect of 'cockers, I think it will appeal to those who were always warned off of the line due to the mythological "high maintenance" that they were renowned to have.

Just look at the rebound SP made with the Ion. It's an alright marker at best, but the ease of accessibility to parts, upgrades, and ease of use have made it a favorite amongst the young speedball crowd the world over. If WGP can put better performance (which they can) into a similar package for a competitive price ($450 or less) then they'll get back in.

[wanderlustre]

Originally Posted by Slowcode

Once you understand and appreciate the workings of a cocker then it will make you want a blazer all that more. The blazer works the same but addresses all of the little flaws that WGP didn't.

Agreed. Though I still love my '96 dearly; a Blazer will soon take it's place as the semi in my collection.

[Slowcode]

OH NO NO NO NO... I couldn't begin to replace my beloved cocker. I pulled all the stops out 5 years ago and had one milled to my specs and everything anno matched a bright orange/mango color. Since then it has been my old faithful and eliminated many a player. I couldn't ever think of replacing it so I bought a blazer just to time share. I also converted a twister mech to an E2 framed monster. Now I have almost all bases covered: Sniper 1, Sniper 2, Mech, Eblade and blazer.

[Walking_Target]

I, at one time, knew everything there was to know about pre-2k autocockers. thanks to an overprotective mother that wouldn't let me play, i learned instead

Basically, theres the "big 3" in classical (late 1990's) high value paintmarkers, they are the Autococker, Shocker and Angel.

Autocockers, as made by Bud Orr's WGP, as stated above, need only an adjustable LPR. in many situations, the internally-only adjustable inline reg was preferabe.

the post-K2 WGP needs (IMHO) a good barrel. that's about it, i personally would include a frame that has a trigger adjustment (haven't had a chance to get a good look at a 2k4 or better cocker, they may have adjustable frames stock now) and a short throw 4-way such as a Quickswitch, Bomb or Belsales. but that's personal preference.


so long as it will cycle and shoot paint (and stay timed!), the rest of the upgrades are purely personal preference and cosmetic.

my advice is to find an autococker that is near stock, with an ANS, Belsales, Palmers or Shocktech LPR, and a Black Magic, Ergo or better regulator (Stay away from the no-name regs!) from there, make your upgrades as they make sense to you.